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Nacra F20

Posted By: Biggie

Nacra F20 - 03/12/10 06:03 PM

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Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/12/10 06:43 PM

boards down going downhill. thats gonna take some getting used to.
Posted By: Keith

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/13/10 01:40 AM

Me likey...
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/13/10 01:51 AM

Boards down all the time. Crew must have designed the boat.
Posted By: arbo06

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/13/10 02:32 AM

8' 6" wide? Looks a little more....
Posted By: Jake

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/13/10 03:35 AM

I thought it was 10' wide.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/13/10 04:05 AM

10.5 feet

http://www.nacra.ca/images/stories/images/finalsmall.jpg
Posted By: tshan

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/13/10 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
boards down going downhill. thats gonna take some getting used to.


Board depth has always depended onhow high you want to sail... it has always been a trade off on depth and how muct you "trip" on the boards.
My opionion is that most I20 drivers abuse the foregivenss of the fat bows...
Posted By: macca

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/13/10 07:16 AM

More board down on the F20 = less hull in the water and you go deeper downwind...
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/14/10 01:31 AM

In light to medium, you get alot of power off em.
Posted By: JMAC

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/14/10 03:35 AM

What's the latest word on price for the new Carbon wonder?
Posted By: ButchG

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/15/10 11:29 PM

Too Damn Much wink
Posted By: engineer

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/16/10 09:19 PM

The price that I heard, it was cheaper than an A. Somewhere around the early 30's in AUD. But i can't remember who told me, so i may be wrong.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/16/10 09:39 PM

What do you pay for an A?
US they're 20-25K the F-20 is supposed to be 28-30K USD.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/18/10 08:32 PM

I'll take four. Kids don't need no edjumakashun
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 01:41 PM

Macca goes for a sail on the F20. I think we have a winner.

Quote
Here is my impression on the boat:-



Holland in March is usually not the best place to go sailing, as an Aussie I have a natural dislike to any weather that requires the use of a drysuit!
John Forbes said it best: If you need a drysuit, we don't go! But as the years I spend in Euroland go by I find myself less reluctant to drysuit weather and was even tempted to sail the new Nacra F20 in February. but sanity prevailed when there was a good coverage of ice in the harbour.



So finally the weather came good, I arrived back Holland earlier this week and after a visit to Nacra HQ we arranged to go for a test sail on Wednesday. The forecast was great, Unseasonal warm weather and 12 kts breeze sounded pretty good for a first sail on the new creation.



You have all seen photos of the boat and discussed the boat at length so I won't bore you with any more detail stuff unless someone has a specific question, but suffice it to say that the boat is what you expect from Nacra, the layout is clean and simple just like the Infusion. The build quality and finishing (on this pre production boat) was excellent, a few extra bolt holes and fittings here and there but as you would expect from the first boat out of the moulds.



The breeze was a lot stronger than the forecast and as we sailed out of the harbour and as soon as we exited the sea wall it was clearly more than 20kts. So this would be an interesting session!



First up, Peter Vink and I sailed upwind for a couple of miles, just getting a feeling for the boat and trying a few different settings for mast rotation and board height (more on the board height later) essentially the boat sails like an Infusion, same systems and Nacra DNA helps with the familiar feeling and there are very few things anyone would want to change. You can feel the foils working to lift the leeward hull even as you go upwind. The boat feels fast as you come out of a tack but then as you both get on the wire and it winds up to full speed you get a funny feeling through the boat that it's all gone a bit light, essentially it has gone light! There is clearly less boat in the water..



Pete and I then cruised downwind (no trapezing so we could chat) getting a feel for the boat under kite and seeing what happens when you push the bows under a wave (not much, just pops out again). The breeze by now was solid mid 20's so we were giving it some loads to deal with, At the bottom of our run we parked up and had a chat about a few things we noticed and then Pete jumped on the coach boat to check it from a different point of view and Adam Beattie joined me on the 20.



Upwind again, this time Adam and I were pushing as hard as we could and tried the boards in different heights as well as different heel angles for the boat, both of these are related to the behaviour of the boat and both make a huge difference. If you have the boards fully down and fly the hull high you get a lot of lift from the foil, this is fun but not the fastest way to go upwind. We tried some silly things like big hull flying and then rounding up sharply.. The boat flies on the foil (leeward hull out of the water until the board case) then it settles back down in the water and carries on upwind. Its all very manageable and aside from the ability to make the foils lift the boat its pretty normal sailing.



Then we set the kite and left the boards fully down and Adam jumped on the wire, you feel instantly that the boat is lifting on the foils. Its very easy to get the whole boat out! We did this a few times and couldn't stop laughing! It's seriously the most fun you will ever have on a beach cat. For sure the full boards down option is not the fastest in the conditions we had (25kts by this stage) but it's a crazy amount of fun and very addictive..
Anyhow, sanity prevailed and we lifted the boards 30cm and tried again: This is the quickest I have ever been on a beach cat downwind. Pete was only just keeping up in the coach boat at full throttle. The slightly higher board setting still gives lift and the boat is semi foiling the whole time. You can feel that the steering becomes super sensitive and your speed increases as you keep the boat in the groove. It was around this time that I said to Adam: "this is the future of catsailing" It's a whole new dimension to the sport, The added speed and feeling the boat gives you is something I want to do again and again. I would have stayed out all day if it was possible!



So, we could see some seriously bad weather coming in and as it was already 20kts plus we decided to call it a day, Here is the "funny" part. The heading back to the harbour was a square reach and being silly (bloody
Aussies!) we thought it would be interesting to see what happens with a full noise reach and full boards down. We started out pretty well, the boat was semi foiling and going quick. I think we would have been quicker with the boards up a bit more though. But we were still heading a bit high for the harbour entrance, so we tried to sail a bit lower angle and initially we were fine, then we had a huge line of breeze come through and we got it all a bit wrong.. With the full boards down the boat started to get out of the water and we were standing too far aft which then lifted the bows and then the boat really came out of the water, lost grip and took a big step to leeward, this would have been ok if I was still attached to the boat!
Suffice it to say that we did some swimming in the North Sea J



The good news is that the boat was super easy to get back upright again, the lesson for the day was: don't try to fly too high!! Its no problem upwind (the boat never fully flies upwind) and downwind is ok because the boat doesn't make the big sideways step as it come out, but reaching is where the side loads are big and the boat wants to go to leeward once it comes free of the water.



The boat is the most fun I have had on a small cat for a very long time and I can't wait for the next sail on it (maybe Monday..) I would happily swap my F18 for the 20 and for a lot of the bigger teams I think it's a great option. There are already solid orders that ensure there will be a class in Europe this year and as more people get to try the boat I am sure the momentum will increase.



Steal one if you have to, but make sure you get out there and try this boat!!


Lotsa Nacramacca in there but still... great writeup macca.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 02:56 PM

Quote
I would happily swap my F18 for the 20 and for a lot of the bigger teams I think it's a great option


So, where's the tilt trailer so us bigger teams can move the thing from point A to point B? I honestly feel that is the limiting factor for this platform. Only 2 M20's in the U.S (granted its an expensive boat), and not many Tornado's, even pre-olympic exile. People are downright scared of boats with a 10' beam!
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 02:57 PM

When's yours coming Tad?
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 03:00 PM

Karl: Negotiating with the war department for the expenditure request smile

Posted By: Kennethsf

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 06:49 PM

Nacra developed , with a European trailer builder, a tilting trailer. The drawings ones finalezed will the send to US to make them available to US builder [in the works as we speak]

It is a very simple set up and will take you 2 minutes more then a " normal" non tilting trailer
Posted By: Mike Hill

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 07:38 PM

Yes, They need to sell the trailer with the boat so that every boat comes with one pretty much. That's the only way you could ever sell them in the states. You have to have a turn key system for folks.

I won't say I'm interested in spending that kind of money on one but I'd love to take it for a test spin.

Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 08:28 PM

Quote
People are downright scared of boats with a 10' beam!


You can't be serious.
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by TeamChums
Quote
People are downright scared of boats with a 10' beam!


You can't be serious.


I agree; I designed a single hander with 12 foot beam; Just chickend out of getting it built....

Beam is good....
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 08:42 PM

what would really be cool is an easy way to get the trampoline out (or pushed up to the front/back) so that a crosswind on the roadway won't have as much effect...
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 08:49 PM

What would be really cool is if you could take the tramp off and un-bolt the beams from the hulls.

Get over it guys, there are loads of tornado saiors in the US that have figured it out.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Nacra F20 - 03/29/10 08:55 PM

And where are those sailors now? I've seen a whopping 1 Tornado in the Southeast. Granted, I haven't been to Miami where the regatta is held, so that is some bias.

I have no problem putting a boat on a tilt trailer. Taking the tramp off every time adds ~30-45 minutes to the setup and is frankly a pita, but not a necessary step if the trailer is designed properly. I think the downside is really in the additional cost of the trailer compared with a normal trailer, but if you can afford this boat you can afford the trailer.
Posted By: DHO

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/09/10 03:49 AM

Anyone notice the upwind sail area is 280 feet^2? This boat will be a screamer.

DHO
TheMightyHobie18 1067
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/09/10 05:20 AM

Notice that the N20 already carries 257 ft^2 upwind? Its a screamer too; the difference is the F20, besides having slightly more sail area, has a more efficient rig with the wing mast and higher aspect ratio mainsail. The C foils and the new hull shape make a huge difference. ONE of the reasons the latest F18's can hang with the N20 is the new hull shape, which carries weight better and handles rough water better than the older F18's. The other is sail shape and we are fixing that.
Posted By: arbo06

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/09/10 12:04 PM

Don't forget about the beam width that enables the increase in sail area without over powering the boat.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/09/10 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by arbo06
Don't forget about the beam width that enables the increase in sail area without over powering the boat.


This is the biggie! Righting moment.
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/09/10 06:18 PM

Won't it hurt more when you fall off the hull backwards while reaching into the beach?
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/09/10 08:23 PM

Not if he lands on his head again. You cant hurt that thing.
Posted By: Keith

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/10/10 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by TeamChums
Not if he lands on his head again. You cant hurt that thing.


But that can cause more beach erosion, which gets us in other trouble...
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Nacra F20 - 04/29/10 02:23 PM

Apparently the boat makes its competitive de-butt at the Eurocat raid.
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