Congratulations to Dave & Dave

on their great finishes at The Mug Race.

Dave Carlson placed 4th overall and 1st in class

Dave Ingram places 5th overall and 3rd in class.

And another 1 & 1 for the Roberts clan.

http://www.rudderclub.com/2012MugRaceResultsbyTime.pdf

It was a brutal trip but the cream always rises...

Congrats to everyone who makes this EPIC VOYAGE every year.

Kudos to the Rudder Club and Palatka Yacht Club they really stepped up their game this year. We had a festival/party in the boat park Friday evening with a live band, oysters and of course beer. They also had a small warm up race Friday afternoon which we plan to do next year. Plus Beef-o-Bradies has the restaurant contract with the host hotel so the food is a bit better. Clearly the city of Palatka is behind this event and it really showed, what a difference.

It's easy to hate this race because it's always a light air affair but the host clubs do everything they can to make it worth your while. Trust me when I tell you that the post race stories can be just as entertaining if not more so than if we had wind.

The best part of this race was chatting up with friends I hadn't seen in a year, as well as those I see all the time.

I did find out this year that Gina McDonald can talk some trash and her timing is perfect. Ten minutes before we splash the boat she walks over and pats me on the back and all I heard in my head was 'Awe sweety, it's too bad we're going to kick your a$$'. The woman is brilliant!

Just remember to bring your good karma, this is one race where it's better to be lucky than good.

I puked in my mouth a little bit just now.

What's on your mind JC?

Let's just let it rip a little bit.

Carlson ran a Catnip rating with carbon rudders, daggers, A-cat carbon mast and spin, only taking a hit for the spin. That's not very sportsman I think. That is a call-out to the polka-dot.

The 30 is nothing like it began in existence, adding a carbon rig, square top main, an upwind A sail and a spin that is 24 square meters (258 sq feet) larger than original, totaling 78 sq meters (839 sq ft) . The F18 spin is only 21 sq meters. Of course, it's the only boat with an 'all sails' DPN rating, which was quickly expressed to me by a very kind (I'm serious) Roberts gent after said race. What is 'all sails' exactly? and how can any boat have that kind of rating? (Again, I'm serious) They did sail the 30 well. I know that. However, again that is a reason for the DPN to drop. Look at all the classes with top sailors on board and what happens to the DPN. Is the the boat? The sailors? The football field of sail? The only thing that matters is time on distance. Period. Oh, and they add racks to the boat sometimes too. I forgot about that.

And you, Dave, sailed a completely stock F18. Shame on you! Heavy none the less.

We did add curved foils to the M20. Other than that we were stock. There is no current adjustment for that at the moment.

Every time I call the sailors to task on their ratings circumnavigation I get the same answer, "Well until they tell me I can't do it...." I'm not sure exactly who 'they' is, but I thought 'they' was us, the sailors, who approach this sport in a gentlemanly way and respect their fellow competitors. Damn am I wrong about that one.

The fact is, nobody thinks they have a chance to beat the 30 without doing something drastic, which is why I saw more frankenboats than a bad episode of Mystery Science Theater last weekend. In the face of staggering odds, the human mind will stop at nothing to succeed, especially when it can add some carbon bits to a bent popsicle. Then, when one fails they go find something else to do, like the 200 competitors that didn't show up last weekend.

Did I think we had a chance? Yes. However, if it wasn't pursuit style, the Antrim 27 would have taken all the marbles. Hats off to them for sure.

So I came to the conclusion that this race is going to slowly decay to the point of a club race (Rudder Club that is) unless it is evened out somehow. For sure, something has to be done to make the common man feel he has a chance if he sails splended.

Is this sour grapes? I do really hate to lose. But I only like to win when I have done my best to play a fair game and execute the game plan to the best of my abilities.

Is that what you were looking for Dave?

Good call out John




I wish I had said that



Needed to be said.

Thanks for talking to me after the race, John. Sorry I didn't recognize you.

Same game got played with the 27, 22, and 20. Seems to be a dishonorable trend going on with him.

That is why one and only one of the 20's fit under the cardsound bridge I belive they other lost something very vital like a mast he he he ! ! ! ! !
that would be steaple chase I belive......

And they both went under the same section of bridge one right after the other follow the leader with out thinking ops ! ! !

Wait, the boat gets the same rating no matter how much cloth it sticks up in the air?

How the hell is that not dirty cheating?

2 FAIR SAILING

A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized principles of sportsmanship and fair play. A boat may be penalized under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles have been violated. A disqualification under this rule shall not be excluded from the boat’s series score.

It was John, and good on you for having a fairly balanced post.

The bottom line is, it is up to us to file a protest if we feel a competitor is breaking a rule. The RC 30 issue is known by those that are interested and it always taints their accomplishments. As for Dave, same deal.

The protest is fairly easy to write up and submit but clearly nobody wants to be the dick. Five years ago this crap would have driven me up the freaking wall but I've made my peace with handicap racing and have accepted it for what is which is nothing more than a loose approximation of where we finished. Those that have more invested in handicap racing need to pick up the ball and do what they think is necessary. Clearly talking to the offenders face to face is not having the desired results.

As for the RC-30 all sails rating, this is pretty much the same thing as what is done for the big tri's. The idea is you're rated for your biggest sail plan then you can carry anything you want below that. Another point regarding the spin and DPN, there is no size limit for the spin hit, so that may be a soft argument in the protest. Anyone can carry any size head sail for the .96 hit and I suspect the RC30 number was created with this in mind. If the RC isn't taking a hit for the carbon stick, square top and racks (.995 * .995 * .995, which are tiny hits) then you have a case otherwise it may not be a winable protest depending on the opinion of the DPN committee.

Bill and Eric have been flogged on the internet for what 10+ years now. Remember the sh!tstorm on the old 1design.net site? So, a protest needs to be filed or everyone needs accept the situation for what it is.

For the record, I did ask the DPN committee to review ALL the Formula boats, box rule, RC 30 and yes the M20 too. I requested that review be done to bounce the DPN numbers off the other systems in use just to make sure the numbers are in the ballpark. It never went anywhere.

Mark before you jump in here and start beating the drum about switching to a measurement based system please note that nobody has made the effort to file a protest and this has been going on for years! This clearly points out that we have the time to bitch about something but don't have the time or the desire to do something about it.

Both Eric and Dave visit this forum from time to time.

Perhaps being called out will encourage them to do the right thing, just like it did when Skip (ARC22) had his little "problem" at the start of the Steeplechase.

Having said that, like Dave said, this race is more about luck than being good or having a sweet rating.

However, it is always nice to think you have a fair chance when you set out in the morning.

BTW...here was my "Franken Boat" this year.

Sweet. Wots it rate?

88.4

Nice Jack!
Love the shark on the bows!

In many cases, yes, but I finished within sight of the RC30 the year I did the mug race on an I20 and still lost to it....I think there's a little more to that sweetheart rating - he's won that thing like, what? 12 years in a row?

wow, and I was just interested (prior to a scheduling conflict) in attending for the party and the nice sail up the river with a crap-load of different boats.

I mean, really, how often do you get to sail along with an A-scow, a tall ships, sailing canoes, 4ksbs we've all skinned our knees on, and franken-boats of all shapes and sizes?

You dudes at the front of the pack worry about that protest stuff... but in essence I agree that if you've franken-boated yourself it would be nice to come up with a fair means of adjusting the rating.

Got it...


You guys are pretty lame talking about a competitor cheating and not having the balls to challenge him.... IMO... if anyone gets flicked... it should be the wankers who whine but don't do anything.

JC made the only relevant point.... The race will die unless the OA gets the priorities right..... eg it's a race first... then a party.

FYI, With SCHRS.... every owner would have been the one to declare the bits. measure the bits, run the calculator and get the rating.

He can get someone else to man the smart end of the ruler... or even a completely independent team to measure the bits and sign their name.

Everything I have quickly read so far... may not be "fair" but it certainly was legal under Portsmouth.... That is the problem with portsmouth.

To say a regatta will die because the OA won't police handicap infractions is bogus! Handicap racing has been around forever and the nonsense that goes along with it has too. It's also impossible for the OA to police what someone submits on their registration and it's up the the competitors to file a protest if there is an infraction. I'm actually surprised you took this position Mark.



Same as with DPN, you are still expected to claim your mods. The chink in the armor with a measurement based system is it's just not likely that the twice a year frankenboat racer is going to go to the bother of getting a cert. DPN makes it very easy for this type a participant to play and play legally. So you need to choose, purify the water and shrink the pool or live with it being a bit tainted with the hopes that frankenboat sailors will catch the bug and join a formula, OD or box rule class.

Handicap racing IS about the party. If the party sucks why would you handicap race at all? Everyone knows if you want to have a real race you do it straight up! The Rudder Club gets it, again Kudos to the Rudder Club!

What can I say...

We don't have a qualified "****" among us to file a protest and look like the sore loser.

Like ... you.

Ding is right...as usual.

The Mug Race is a lot more than a bunch of Catsailors whining about winning.

(Not that we shouldn't do what we can to encourage fair reporting and challenge those who abuse the system...thanks to JC for getting that started).

Most folks haven't a chance and many never finish within the time limit.

Still, they come back every year. 4 out of 5 years it is a tedious slog in conditions most of us would not attempt otherwise.

The Crap Shoot is finding pressure and not sailing through it into a Black Hole.

Your handicap is just the first card in your hand. You squander that away many times during the day, often to gain it back double with a lucky choice.

Who would do this without the fellowship and camaraderie?

My ride of choice this year put me square in the middle of the folks who make this race happen. The slower pace actually was quite invigorating. Lots of position swaps and close racing goin' on in there with so many different boat configurations.

The Mug Race will be 60 years old next year. If none of us showed up, we would hardly be missed.

Not what I want to say.. The OA should pay attention to the racing by just changing to a workable and fair handicap system. ... This is just an issue of integrity. Use a workable system... not one that has been failing over time.

You can't piss on the sailors for "cheating" when they really are not... the OA should lead... not follow.... change the system.

I am not saying the OA should enforce handicap or One design compliance....I have second thoughts on the OA enforcing the safety requirements. Its the sailors responsibility for all of this. Not the point I want to make.

You are always hung up on the certification issue. The twice a year sailor with a beater one design boat.... is covered.

the twice a year sailor who has spent the time on creating his frankenboat is HIGHLY motivated to see how the thing does.
They will be follow the rules... measure their franken equipment and run the calculator and get a rating. They will be more worried about getting the measurements and ratings correct then trying to cheat. No certificate is needed...

If you think he is cheating... protest him... (just like PN)... if you think he made an interpretation error... talk to him.

When you are required to use a bull $#it tool (portsmouth has failed over time)... and all you get is grief about it... Of course that is no fun.

Dave... the guy who builds the frankenboat for this race is simply not going to buy a Nacra 17.

Here again is where you and I disagree. By definition (in my opinion) handicap racing regardless of the system used is flawed and unfair in one way or another to someone and there is simply no way around this very glaring truth. Didn't Carnac use a measurement based system?

You also said the "serious" frankenboat sailor would make sure their cert was up to date and accurate, which doesn't really apply here either. The teams in question in this thread are being accused of cheating (not claiming the mods that apply to their rig) and a measurement system aint going to fix that.

I think with the looseness of the portsmouth rating for that boat, the protest might be difficult to win unless there was some other information that the Portsmouth committee could provide showing how they arrived and how they constrained that number. It is what it is.

"Don't hate the Playa, hate the game!"

Portsmouth sucks...but if you want to play, well, you know the rules are weak when it comes to 'modified sail plans'. How would you like to be one of those poor monohulls who have to start at 7am, with zero wind, and then try to finish, as all the late starting cats go blowing by you when the breeze finally shows?

Go for the Party, but they should just hand the RC 30 the trophy on Friday night.

Personally, I HATE light air sailing. I only got into cats to GO FAST(er) than monohulls! Having done this light air drifter 3 times, I swore I'd never go back, the logistics are a PITA, as is the long drive home with a hangover, but since next year is the 60th...well...maybe.

Depends on the weather forcast.

I have heard complaints about portsmouth and frankenboats in the local clubs in my area as well. I've been tossing an idea around in my head but I have never mentioned it before now...

What if the skipper was rated instead of the boat? It would be a portsmouth style system where a skipper's (rather than the boat's) rating would adjust after every regatta. With such a system, you would win races more based on how much you (or your boat) has improved.

In the particular case being discussed here, the skipper's (Dave's?) rating would progressively decrease every time he won the regatta. In order to keep winning, he would need to either improve his boat each year, or become a better sailor.

Gaming such a system would require the skipper to intentionally loose regattas to keep his rating high. Somehow I don't think that would be much of a problem!

We are due for a windy year Tim. We missed by two days this year...it blew nicely all day Thursday.

Translation.... Catnip.... Old heavy A class that Dave has modified... LEGAL
Carbon Rudders... LEGAL (not regulated in Portsmouth)
A-cat carbon mast.... A catnip is an A Cat.... Length and type of mast... not an issue for A cats... LEGAL

spin, only taking a hit for the spin LEGAL

All of that is LEGAL

Now... the problem is that the last time a catnip raced in a legit portsmouth race may be 15 years ago. Do you think the A cat rating from 15 years ago was... is "accurate".... The Portsmouth system has FAILED.

Calling Dave Carlson Unsportsmanlike or "cheating".... Ignorant at best!



Flawed and unfair....

Flawed.... what do you mean?
The rating table is not accurate? the rating table is not precise enough? the rating table was generated using bogus data? the rating formula uses the wrong constants?

Unfair.... again... what do you mean?

Look.... if two IDENTICAL ONE DESIGN BOATS finish a race overlapped... guess what... the most perfect and the fairest handicap system in the world would still score the two boats as TIED.

If what you want to say is that handicap racing is not as precise as the One design racing.... TRUE.... and .... so what?

Have you ever played in a after work golf league that uses this system? Yeah... people will sandbag.

This system might be fun for a local club event but having grown up sailing PHRF which essentially rates the skipper/team it starts to suck out load real quick. PHRF is the devil!

The question is does this apply to the Catnip and RC-30?

Any other deviations from standard class configurations, including the addition of wings, can be assessed a penalty of at least 0.995. Multiple deviations may incur multiple penalties. Penalties may be greater than 0.995. Please identify any such modifications and penalties assigned and include with results reported to the handicap committee and Portsmouth Numbers Committee.

You say no but others say yes which is the basis of the thread and potential protest.

Let me also state if I haven't made it clear before... I don't give two sh!ts about the catnip, RC30 or any other rig in a handicap race because for me it aint real racing and that's how I deal with the handicap racing bullsh!t.

If you think a measurement system will magically make all this insanity go away your are delusional Mark. It's like saying one religion is the real true religion and all others are bogus. You're a believer and good for you, I'm simply not.

Yeah...I've been sucked in by that "...we are overdue..." before too!

But I might come just to drink beer with you at the finish line Jack.

I might not bring my boat though.

The many hours spent rigging it, unrigging it, all that back and forth driving up to the club and then back to Polatka sure cut into my party time! If I could just find someone to haul my beach wheels up to the Rudder club...

I know you are not making any charge that either boat is cheating.

Your broad brush stroke that this is just like religion and you are not a believer is fine... BUT the race actually IS scored on handicap and they give out trophies and others care.
So... the OA should lead and choose the most workable handicap system.

Portsmouth has now become a system where you are screwed at almost all turns. "Maybe he is... maybe he is not CHEATING" is a tragic conversation.
Portsmouth's time in the sun is over. The rudder club should lead...

It's a really fun race regardless of weather. It is one of my favorite sailing memories when David Mosely and I used it to shake out the I20 before our first Tybee....we actually had a little breeze that year before storms sucked it away (before bringing it back with veracity). The hull flying spin run through the monohull fleet was awesome...making fun of Mosely for wrapping himself in the spinnaker when it started to rain...when we were soaking wet anyway (trampoline launched kite), the storms bringing the wind back and making it to the club in time to have the beer tent whisked away over our heads into the clubs antennae (storm wind), and my favorite quote of all time when an older dude who was competing in a sailing canoe was boat assisted to the club. He was sitting on a short retaining wall shivering and someone asked him if they should call EMS. His response? "I'm 80 years old, I'm supposed to shake...just show me to the beer tent". Hell yeah.

WHAT??? You mean there's NOT one TRUE RELIGION???

HERESEY!

He's a WITCH, BURN HIM! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

You got it Pal! Done deal.

That ain't gonna happen Mark. We (cat sailors) are the outliers. Their handicap guy is overloaded as it is with trying to merge PHRF, Portsmouth, etc. into some sort of believable spreadsheet. It is called RCHS (Rudder Club Handicap System) and no one but he knows (or should know) how it works. That way it is hard to protest anyway.

Our Portsmouth numbers are only the base number and he has the ability to make WAG adjustments as he sees fit.

Having said that, word is that he is willing to make bigger adjustments for next year. That was the talk after the race anyway. The new lady Commodore wants this to happen.

It might be a good time for some well written letters to find there way to the Rudder Club.



Address:
Rudder Club of Jacksonville
8533 Malaga Avenue
Jacksonville, FL 32244
Telephone/fax:
904 264-4094
office@rudderclub.com

Holy crap.... I thought we were talking Portsmouth and "cheaters" ...

now that we are talking about the Rudder club handicap system... which contains a WAG factor.

Give me a break.... anybody claiming XX is cheating best apologize.

Still...if you have a Cat, you are supposed to declare a PN based on the USSailing list with the appropriate modifiers.

If you don't declare in good faith then shame on you.

yes... but Dave Carlson properly declared his spin catnip....

The RC30 is a unique one of a kind boat. It is impossible to rate an RC 30 using Portsmouth.... It is a rating for Bill Roberts who owns it. .. If he sailed the boat as well as he did the last time... he would have sailed the boat to it's rating and would likely win. It is the nature of Portsmouth and one off boats.

A solid rating would be founded on a buoys race with a couple of RC30's racing against a couple of Yardstick boats. oh... times 100 such events. x each of 4 wind ranges.....

That John Casey wants to argue that Bill Roberts or Dave Carlson are cheating in the Rudder club handicap system is beyond bogus.

The fact that the club wants to use this out of date rating system to generate the Rudder club rating system ....is insane.

Mark,
I really get bored with your ramblings. You are always trying to stir the pot.

If someone is going to use MAJOR A-Cat parts for the boat then use the A-Cat DPN! Catnip DPN number is for an OD boat that doesn't have carbon bits. I'm not going any further with you on this because you tend to run in circles until the ground hurts beneath your feet. It's not legal. I don't want to be a forum butt that tells you to check your facts before posting, but I guess I am.

The problem is not the system so much but enforcing the system to keep it (more) fair for everyone. I don't like the negativity that comes from this discussion but hopefully out of it some form of positive enforcement of the rules could maybe possibly come from it.

IMO all catamaran DPNs are too high compared to monos, and there are a whole lot of boats that need adjustments. That is enough work in itself seeing how quite a few don't buoy race, but when sailors have been cheating (yes I said cheating) the system, it can get so out of hand that our sport really gets hurt. I don't want to see that happen.

I don't want to hear about SCHRS or whatever because I've been involved with some of their problems, and they're plenty believe me. We have a system supported by US Sailing that needs to be proactively worked on, and possibly there can be a consensus of what needs to be done with our system.

The DPN and mods provided to the Rudder Club still need to be valid. The issue remains the same. If they were using another handicap system it would still go through the RCHS.

This is a pursuit race so yes there is another layer of jiggery pokery.

It's just the Mug Race, I enjoy it others don't and still others take it way to seriously. Do you really think the monohull guys could give a sh!t about who wins the Mug? Although, it was pretty cool when the Scow won it... pssst Roberts finished fourth that year.

I gotta get this race back on my calendar for next year... cheaters, rule compressors, jiggery pokery, or not.

I started this thread to give congratulations to outstanding performances by 2 people that frequent this site. That's why in the thread I put the 1 & 1 below Dave & Dave. I stirred up more than I thought I would but the responses were entirely predictible. Now for my rant.

It is our fault.

As this is a Corinthian sport, we are held to a high standard of responsiblity. In this case, we have been negligent in taking responsibility for how are ratings determined.

I have the pleasure of sailing a Stiletto 27 that is unsailable to its rating in WL's. This rating is determined by the West Florida PHRF committee. They have a board of directors and a rating committee. They come from the various clubs and sail related business's in the area. Both of these are volunteers that give there time and expertise. They have a much more elaborate procedure for determining ratings.

Is it fair? Yes and No. It's run by those human beings that try their best.

What can we do?

Work with USSailing to develop a Multihull Portsmouth rating committee (some of you really hate that word) to review the Portsmouth system. Those whom have commented on this thread certainly have the knowledge and passion to improve the system.

Sailing has so many variables that our attempts to approximate fairness is an educated, deduced guess.

Bored.... ah... note to mark... use shorter sentences... JC won't get bored

Stir the pot... ME! I am not calling two competitors cheaters... You are the guy on his white horse saving the integrity of the sailing by trying to fix Portsmouth.

If I thought you had a clue... I would debate...

Good luck trying to save portsmouth... when you come up with a solution for the RC 30, the M20, the Nacra carbon 20, and the CFR 20.... email me....

Clearly your first order of business is to call out those cheaters and have them change their ways.

I still think we (OK, Pete Melvin) could come up with a much more accurate speed prediction program for cats, that relies on the simplest measurements, such as water line length, beam, total weight, either with or without crew, (racing displacemnt) total upwind sail area and downwind sail area.

Unlike all the different Monohull hull shapes, all cat hulls are pretty much 'torpedo' like, that is, they are long and skinny, so the real 'speed' factor is;

How much does it weigh, how much sail are does it have, upwind and down, and how wide is it?

Seems to me someone must smart enough (don't make me call Wouter!) to come up with a simple speed prediction program for cats of all sizes, that could factor in those simple measurements and be much closer than the Portsmouth numbers.

Tim - you are describing SCHRS.

They take it a little farther with their model but basic concept that you are proposing.

OK, we all agree that trusting a handicap system SUCKS!

We all agree the Portsmouth is BROKEN if only for the fact that it is not updated and requires accurate report with results from mixed fleet racing. NO ONE is reporting anymore. R.I.P.

SCHRS already exists so you don't need to do any further R&D. Anyone can plug in the numbers and come up with a baseline rating. No need for certificates or measurers or that BS. We TRUST each other...Right?

Handicap racing will STILL SUCK...but at least there would be transparency in the rating.

Measure the RC30 and Catnip On Steroids and let it go.

As anyone run the nubers,Portsmouth, vs. SCHRS, on the F16/F18's and A cats, to see how they compare? ie. does one system favor the spin boats vs another?

In the case of all the Frankenboats, with 'my plan' (not that I really have a plan) somebody would still have to measure all the the sails, for all the Frankenboats that are using 'custom' sails, ie. huge jibs and spinnakers, or putting squaretops on boats that don't normally have them. AND...they'd have to weigh all the boats too...huge PITA for a weekend party type race.

To keep it very simple for something like the Mug Race, you would just use the class minimum weight. Almost all FB's are based on a class platform.

It would take someone to step forth and do the calculations and then hand that over to the Rudder Club handicapper....oh ****, never mind.

I think PH is just fine for the Mug Race!

I loved that spinnaker set up on your ride! Now...how about adding a trapeez.


No, WAIT...I'll loan you my mast and all 3 sails off my F16, all you need is a mast step that will keep it all together.

That should make "Waves" at the next Mug race!

Actually Tim, when the wind piped up near the end (15 maybe) on a very close reach I was able to hold it down quite well without a trapeze. I passed about ten boats that I had lost ground to in the downhill slog.

THEN........the pole snapped in half about a mile to go! I was able to gather all the crap on board and made it to the finish.

I think a trap would invite a total meltdown. You can only put so much CRAP in a 13' bag.

Here is a video of the finishes...I come across at 11:45 with my busted pole dangling.

Note that the lady says "it's a Hobie Wave...OMG!"

This is a peach. It should be memorialized forever.
Mark Schneider thinks he has more of a clue about catamaran sailing than JC does.
It took me awhile to type this because I kept passing out from laughter.

Congrats Dave & Dave. Good job. Next year I hope to be out there again giving you two and the Roberts a run for your money.

Huh. Always light air.... Franken boats about.... Me thinks a C2 rig needs to find its way onto my Viper.

How about a F20c rig on an 18HT platform with a code zero on the sprit?

I'm pretty sure I have all the parts to make it happen.

Mug Race 2013 here we come...

Screw it. If I don't have to declare mods, I'll just stick an 5 horse motor on the back and really stick it to the man!

y'all keep coming up with these light air machines for next year. That will guarantee me some big breeze! ;-)

I love the Frankenboats. Bring it!


I really need to make something of myself so I can afford a second house/boat/truck in Florida.

All you need is a 'cap' on the back of your truck, you can live in that, just like all the other snow birds do down here all winter!

I love the rocketeer approach, Mike. As I once asked you, "Keep us sailing fast."

Are there Farrier, Corsair, Formula 40s, one off Stilletos or Sea Cart designs, sailing under PHRF in the race?

I have been haunted by that 30 footer since it appeared in the RTI against the Stl 23s years ago. They finished before the squall line intercepted the lead gaggle of 'beach cats' as we were entering Pensacola Bay, and the race was abandoned by the RComm due to pressure from the USCG. We were the actual third boat to finish behind John Suares (RIP) and the Viva 27. Only had the helm knocked out of my hand four times that night only to arrive at the finish line to find no souls there except for my team mate, Bud Schumann, and the Viva crew from MS. The NACRA 5.8 was a great boat for that race.

The Roberts 30 needs to be racing in PHRF for now. We are actually working on developing a modern PHRF system in the GYA. The I 20 guys are not liking the minus double digits we are showing after two years of data:)

Crew weight and power to weight ratio of the platform will play a role on the new frontier.

Bert Rice
RTI I second place behind Carlton Tucker N 5.2 vs. H 18 We both jumped the Destin jetty that year because of the swells rolling a magic carpet for us in the low spot. The third boat did not make it, and they changed the rule for RTI II.

Thanks for the memory...

You all talk big now with 359 to go, we'll see who has the stones to suck it up and do the big drift! Make sure you up your ADD meds because the second you see something shiney grandpa Ding is going to own your a$$!

Rob, I'm not going to lie, walking past Daddy-0 under the covers last Saturday was painful for me. It was just wrong!

The only Corsair in that race was a 24MKII which is not a great light air boat. If there had been a Sprint or Dash there it would have left the 24MKII in its wake.

When I get the time I'll look up the results so I can be more enlightened.

Meanwhile, we are planning to hold our 38th annual Pensacola Bay Sea Buoy Race tomorrow in possible record breaking conditions. Kirk Newkirk will be flying (registered this evening) the NACRA Carbon 20 in the 22.5 nm stress test out to Pensacola Sea Buoy 3.5 nm off the coast.

The incoming tide might mean that the surf contest back into the pass, from the sea buoy, will be 'All Time' NASCAR.

Mike, wish you were here.

To Joey - You are correct; the C 24 needs wind just like the NACRA 5.2 and the 5.5 SLs. Underpowered platforms have the year long edge against the "Frankenstein" boats. Let's have a Frankenstein Festival > the best costumed boat wins

sorry ... forgot to add that Kirk came up to me tonight and claimed he would do the 22.2 nms in eighty (80) minutes. I am taking that as a 'Poker Run' bet. Any takers on actual elapsed time in surfing conditions???

Being in Iraq kept me from sailing last year. Two titanium screws in my ankle kept me out of the race this year. See pics:

Ouch!

Well, at least they are titanium, so you won't need those zink plates stapled to your butt when you go sailing!

LOL. Yeah, but the screws are out now.

How'd you do that?

I hope there's a good story, not a, "I tripped over the dog..." type thing!

Mountain biking. Hard left turn, front wheel broke loose, fell on my left ankle and then left leg. I didn't get my foot out of the clipped in pedal fast enough and rolled/dislocated my ankle with my tibia offset from my ankle. When I came down on my leg, I had little support for my relatively smaller fibula, which broke an inch and a half below my knee. The break wasn't so bad, but the dislocation, with torn ligaments and tendons, required the screws to hold my ankle in place until the ligaments and tendos healed.

I just started walking without crutches a few days before the Mug Race. That was from an accident that happened the 3rd week of January. I really need to get out o the water.

OUCH!!

That hurt just reading it!

Well you're right, a little salt water on it ought to help.

What if you could submit a polar for each boat to USS portsmouth committee? I thought someone said there's a smartphone app that draws one up.

Get the best sailor on the boat to drive it for a while, get the polars and crunch the numbers into some sort of DPN/PN. Then you wouldn't have to worry so much about individual mods, but rather how they all work together (or not) to make the boat faster...

I'd bet Randy's sew-sew from EC might have done pretty well at Mug, too?

Remember saying this Brogger. Are you going frankenboat it up in 2013 and show us how the big drift is done? It's always light air and I've heard you're a bit delicate so the chances you'll break a nail are low, but it can be a bit warm so you're makeup might run.

It is not too late to get your letters in to the new commodore, Jim Maedel. They promised last year to look into reviewing the ratings.

Time to write some letter folks.