raising mast forward

I'm getting into my traveling season and was thinking it would save some time if I could raise the mast from the bow end rather than the stern. Anyone ever tried it? The A cats do it, any reason we couldn't/shouldn't?

It works and you avoid having to rotate the mast to step it.

2 problems though.

1) On the Blade the jib track is fixed and you have to clear it to make the pin connection. The end has to be raised so you can not just lay it on the ground. Ok if you have hlep but it requires some stand to do alone.

2) There is just 1 forestay. On an A they run 2 forestays and no bridal. The mast stepped forward has the sides undone. Once up with a single forestay, there is no side support for the mast while you fasten the sides. It is more tricky to hold and dnagerous if a gust comes from the side.

Otherwise go for it

why not do it from the back.

Tie Spi halyard onto the bridal, route the downhaul thru the turning block as per normal and then thru usual cleat and just raise the mast, and cleat it off once up so you can put the forestay on properly. .

I was counting on using the mast crutch on the trailer for support and using the trap wires, temporarily attached at the bridle, for stays.

Any thoughts on that procedure?

Thanks! (I'm also sending you a PM)

If you want to use the mast crutch you could load the boat backwards. I've started taking the boat off of the trailer and backing it up against the trailer and using the crutch to hold it. My boat will not fit on my trailer backwards with out moving stuff around that I don't want to move.

Pete:

So the cat is still on the trailer when stepping while using the mast support as a crutch? Balance beam anyone? If it is on the ground, you'll still have to do the extra work of tieing & untieing the trap lines, stepping over the bridle, and the reduced leverage (if it mattered) compared to being on the tramp. You could always use the mast support as a crutch when stepping from the rear also, if stepping from the ground.

BTW, the mast base, spindle, and retainer setup is much improved on the Falcon. You probably can swap out your existing setup easily.

I hurt my shoulder in '08, it will never be as strong as before. Previously I raised the mast, solo, with the boat on the trailer, no problem. Since then I've started taking the boat off the trailer, turning it around and using the the mast crutch to make it easier to step under the mast.

The A cat guys step their masts with no problem, using the bridles as temporary stays.

Was just wondering if anyone had tried it.

Says who, and why will it never be as strong? If you dont want to discuss this on an open forum, I can certainly understand that.
Did you buy the book?

The Isotope mast is bow stepped. Boat has two shrounds and one forestay, I hook up the forestay to the bridle and one of the shrouds to an eyelet mounted on the front crossbar. Step the mast, then attach the other shroud to the chainplate, walk around and undo the eyelet shroud and attach it back to the chainplate. Having the little eyelet on the front crossbeam makes all the difference in stability when the mast is going up.

Towing sterns forward works great for solo mast stepping without the need of an extra mast stand. On our beach it's the routine method for boats up to 6 meters. You usually have to rearrange your trailer crossbeams to get the boat supported corectly and to get it level.

Here are some photos of my Mystere 5.0XL.

If you can park on a grade the mast stands on its own while you jump down to secure the forestay. Notice the backwards Prindle 18 in the background.

I've got shoulder issues as well and this way is not a problem for me. It works well whether the mast is rotated or normal. You do have to watch out that the diamond wire doesn't shear off your ear as you lift it past your head. Don't ask me how I know....

Rolf: All the medical adivce I've received is consistent. Shoulder injuries do not heal well. Once the shoulder is injured a recurrence is more likely.

In this specific instance, when I step under the mast raising it ABOVE my shoulder, there is a slight pulling sensation. Not painful, but enough to make me cautious.

David: I'm using your system already (thanks to Frank Rodericks of "Frankenboat" fame). It doesn't appear that raising from the front is going to be worth the hastle. So, eventhough I tow forward, I'll just continue to swing the boat around once it's off the trailer.

Shoulders, grrrrrr!!!

What finished mine was a ring refusing to hook onto the masthead. I tried over and over, rotating and yanking harder and harder on the halyard until I heard a snapping sound in my shoulder. Bad plan.

Two years since my rotator cuff surgery and it's 95% of my 30 year old shoulder (notice I did not say 18 year old shoulder). Without hesitation I will play catch with my son, including long throws from center field. I haven't been able to do that for years so the surgery was great for me. It took 6 months before I'd race in big air, however.

Shoulder and knee injuries seem to be epidemic! If you haven't had one or the other you're probably in the minority. The good thing is that I'm back in the gym and in much better shape generally, than before the injury. T.V. and potato chips = bad; sweating, stretching, bicycling = good!

Pete,
I take it you ment that your shoulders flexibility and stability will never be as good as before the injury. That is entirely possible, but strength is so much easier to do something about. Are you able to do dips, handstands and pull-ups? If not, those exercises + front and back levers performed on rings are superior to anything you do with apparates or free weights. The instability of the rings and the multi-plane movements/resistance will train all the small muscles and their coordination in a much more advantageous way. I spent many years climbing and busted both elbows and both shoulders (overreaching, hanging off the joints, not taking rest when I should => chronic tendonitis etc). Working the rings is what have rehabilitated me.

If your gym dont have rings, ask them to install a set. I can give you references if they need. Rings are superior for upper body workouts and you can build strength gradually through progressively harder exercises. Nobody pulls the moves you see at the gymnastic events the first day And you are never too old to build serious strenght, it just takes longer due to less hormonal activity and the correct diet.

I know I sound like a "besserwisser", sorry, but the intentions are all good (and this is something I have become passionate about. I have my own set of rings installed under the staircase).

ROFLMAO! I haven't done a pull up since basic training. . . in 1967!!!

See PM.

Pete I feel your pain meng. I got busted knees and ever since I started working out again its gotten worst.

Are you doing plenty of stretches? I spend a lot of time in this thing.

http://www.truefitness.com/products/commercial/product.aspx?seriesID=16&productID=42

Glucosamine Chondroitin

Oh, you dont need gear to work out or stretch

Pull-ups are good for you, if your shoulder can take it. As is push-ups, handstands and other pulls and presses. All kind of progressions are available and they will stabilize your joints in a way machines never will. These basic calisthenic workouts are not marketed becouse there is very little money to be made from them, but I think they are superior for health and fitness.

Glucosamine Chondroitin is a maybe to me, but I am not a doc: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/glucosamine.html


Now look where this thread have gone

Rolf the best workouts are the ones you use your own body weight to strength train. Pushups, pull ups, situps, etc etc.

If you want to trapeze for hours core workouts help out a ton as well.

Like all fitness literature says, if you cant do atleast one or two pull ups you are not worthy of doing curls or any other upper body workout with ANY machine.

Getting back to the original question after discussing gym rats and condroiten, here's my question. If I am not rigging for a jib do I need the single forestay and bridel? Could I do away with the single forestay then and have two forestays. The spin pole would be left with the lateral lines to the forestay hull tabs for side to side support and then the usual two lines from the bows out to the end of the pole. I have this nagging feeling that I am missing something obvious in this train of thought. Oh shoot! I guess I need something to hold the pole up? Ed

Without anything to hold the middle of the pole up the pole will invert and break.

The solution is simple, use 3 forestays: one to each hulls and one to the pole

I am not worthy! I am not worthy!

Yes! That would work. Thanks

That's how the F18HT's do it, 2 forestays to the hulls and one skinny piece of spectra or dyneeema for the pole tied at mid pole behind the snuffer hoop of course.

They call the pole forestay the "Anti Gravity Line"!

The I17R originally had a similar arrangement. There was a single forestay, but it was only a couple of feet long. The bridle wires were long - practically forestays. There was a thin wire to support the spin pole.

Then they switched to a conventional long single forestay and short bridle wire arrangement. This made spinnaker handling easier, since there was less wire out front for the spinnaker to catch on.

I always raise and lower my mast over the bows. I just don't like walking on my boat.
Two very short lines at each main beam hull inside gunwale stay on the boat to tie the trap wires off while the mast goes up and down. Makes it perfectly stable even in a strong cross wind and much less drag than running an extra forestay. Also the hassle of tying /untying the trap wires is less than having to jibe the kite around an extra wire in the form of a second foresty and there is no clock ticking during this operation.

Well, I tried it and it works, though my first attempt was less than graceful! Maybe I didn't have enough tension on the temporary lines, but the mast was very wobbly!

Best if mast is along centre line of platform.
Both the pivot of the mast and trap wires are in line so no need for slack in the trap wires, provided when the trap wires are tied off the mast is aligned with the centre line of the platform..

I have a loose mast hinge that allows a side stay and the forestay to be attached. The mast may be raised from this position and the final sidestay attached. A have featured my horrendously expensive mast holder in one photo as it keeps the mast above the hull while the stays are attached.

I have also raised my mast that way.
Just angling the boat to the trailer and use the trailer for mast support.

Personally I feel safer with the trap wires tied off when raising over the bows.

Phil, do you have your boat on the ground, on the tracks or on the trailer when lowering and raising?

Pete,
I have the beach wheels under the rear beam and some foam cups/pads under the hulls at the bridle fittings.
So the boat does not touch the ground.

Thanks Phil. I tried it the first time with the tracks at the midpoint. Not good!

Thanks, this is what I wanted to ask. Be nice to have the lawn that Peter has to put the boat on when stepping the mast.

Unfortunately, there are fist-sized rocks in the sand here.

To step off the trailer or on the trailer, that's the question... Or, as Dave P shows, to step backwards on the trailer...

What keeps the boat from scooting backwards as you raise the mast?

"What keeps the boat from scooting backwards as you raise the mast?" In my experience, not a thing! My attempt was on hard packed sand, which resulted in way too much movement. I'm thinking some sort of chock for the cat tracks.

The positive points are that it takes less effort, less time and you don't have to stand on the boat. So, I'm determined to make this work.

I've had my boat scoot back as well. But as I always raise the mast with the boat directly behind the trailer and the mast resting on the rear mast support on the trailer I can simply run a line from the trailer to a bridle hull fitting and it does not move. But I have not done that for a very long time. I think there is now enough friction between the cups under the hull at the bridle and the ground to stop it and I've improved my lifting technique also. (I put more effort in lifting it up than pushing it up.)
Not absolutely sure why but I just don't have that problem any more.

I always put the wheels at the back as this is the position I use to get the boat off the trailer. I have had the occassional embarasment when I have tried to lower the mast with the wheels just back from the centre beam. You get about 1/2 way down and the boat will rock back and point the nose in the air while trying to run away from you.

The grass in the photo is a nice change for me. I usually launch from a pebble beach and I put foam blocks under the noses to protect them.

One side-effect of this is that I am now looking at my trap lines and wondering about replacing them...

I raise my Taipan mast solo from the front as shown on the attached photos. Starboard shroud and front stay are pre-attached. The cheap PVC tripod holds the mast above the hull. The mast angle is needed because of the shroud length. I sometimes use the rope attached to the trap line if it is windy, or sometimes just raise it and hold up until I can grab the trap line then hold that while attaching the port shroud.

Patrick,
Tell me about your mast, it looks a lot like the one on my '93 Boyer A cat. And what are you using for non skid, it looks great!

Dave

Dave, I am not sure what you want to know about the mast. It is a standard Taipan 4.9 mast. I think the Blade F16's use the same section. At least that's what I heard when I was looking for a replacement when my mast was destroyed last year in a storm. Luckily I was able to find an extra stateside on the right coast.

I can't tell you anything about the Non-skid as it was on there when I bought the boat. It works well though.

looks the same as Hydro-Turf, which is available in the on-line store
color chart

I am always amazed and impressed over how much work you guys have to do if you want to go sailing! Compared to us slackers who enjoy mast up storage at clubs with slipways covered by synthetic grass, shelters to change into drysuits, waterhoses and all kind of facilities, you are hardcore!

Patrick,
The mast base just looks so similar to mine, I gues I was wondering if AHPC use the same extrusion for the Taipan as the A cat(31').
Thanks for the connection of Hydro Turf!

Dave

Dave- You can get Hydro turf in patterns and colors. If you go to their website they have stuff that was ordered or not made to spec for cheap. You can also get it with a PSA already applied, so just peel n' stick. I've been thinking about doing the whole deck inbetween the beams, (like the Wildcat}, on my boat. I did a little 4"x30" strip where the tiller was rubbing on the gelcoat, and really like sitting on it.

Check out how the mast is stepped in "Trailer with Dolly Built-in" slide show.

Over the bow using the mainsheet system.

Worked like a charm. SOP from now on.

I worked out a system a long time ago to raise my mast forward on my trailer for my Taipan. Basically consisted of drilling 1/4" holes in ends of front beam for caribiners clipped to trap lines to prevent sidesway, telescoping front mast stand, plate on front trailer beam support to clip mainsheet blocks to, plate on rear mast stand for 1:2 blocks that clip to mainsheet then line runs through turning block at rear mast stand and to caribiners that clip to shrouds. Trick is to have mast stand far enough in front of front beam that you can slide the mast up mast stand (I have a roller for that) far enough to fit mast base pin before the spreader hits the mast stand. Then simply lift mast with one arm while "sheeting in" on mainsheet (mainsheet does most of the "work" and you can stop and cleat at any time if necessary). Once get mast up simply unclip caribiner from side shroud and connect first one side then other- I put my trap harness on so I can tension with trap line when hooking up last shroud. Dropping is reverse of above. I have tried to include a photo of my boat with mast ready to raise.

Kirt

That looks good.

If I get it correctly, you are using both shrouds to lift the mast then, correct?

The forestay and bridles are already rigged...

Then you unhook one shroud at a time to connect?