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1.4.5 The weight that is measured at the mainsail hoist height of a mast lying perfectly horizontal with its base supported at the bottom edge of the mast section is referred to as the "mast tip weight". The minimum mast tip weight of a fully fitted mast, excluding standing rigging, is set at 6.00 kg for reasons of seaworthiness and to guarantee fair racing.

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I have to agree with David, a bare carbon mast compared to ali is not much more expensive, its the fittings and build time which racks up the costs and that is equal what ever mast you use. Dare i say it but I think a few of the Carbon mast manufacturers do rely in the mystique of Carbon to justify their prices.

We are a unique class in that we are in essense an experimental class, now everybody acknowledges that carbon masts are better so why are we dithering, lets bite the bullet and allow any mast you like as long as its class legal in girth and length. As a by product of that move you will allow light weights to sail solo, have less masts break and be seen to be a modern look ahead class.

Scooby Simon your perceived thoughts on just how effective adjustable T Foils could be is way over the top, if you are so worried about them then simply put an overall area size for the horizontal foil, if the area is small enough then no matter how much angle of attack they have, they simply cannot generate enough lift to be able to influence a 16ft boat.

David is very right in saying that the foils we use are completely different to that of the Moths, our small foils will never create enough lift unlike the Moths which are quite large and designed for lifting the whole hull out of the water

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the issue is that there are very considerable benefits to variable trim rudders that WILL make the boats obsolete once someone gets them to work - if we allow someone to develop them we cannot then just ban them. This is the crux of the issue - we either allow them and wait for someone to devlop them (and thus make our boats obsolete). Or we ban them now.

The class will look very ver ystupid if we do not ban something, then allow someone to develop itand then ban it

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the issue is that there are very considerable benefits to variable trim rudders that WILL make the boats obsolete once someone gets them to work - if we allow someone to develop them we cannot then just ban them. This is the crux of the issue - we either allow them and wait for someone to devlop them (and thus make our boats obsolete). Or we ban them now.

The class will look very ver ystupid if we do not ban something, then allow someone to develop itand then ban it

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First, we dont know the benefits yet as there are no boats equipped with these rudders (which is what I want to see before an eventual ban is introduced).
It might be that I am just too simple to understand so you have to feed it to me with teaspoons, but why would the class look stupid if we didnt ban such rudders before someone developed the technology and skills necessary to make them work?
I prefer rulesets to be "reactive" and based on what we know, not "proactive" based on what we assume. Especially so in a formula ruleset where there is supposed to be room for experimentation and development.
This whole matter just might be a lot of hot air as trimming two independent T-foils from the trapeze seems a daunting task to me. We are obviously not going to agree on this matter, but I would like to understand why banning new technology before it has been tested and tried is so vital?

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Sorry, but I dont think my vote will be accepted. I only have a collection of parts for a boat yet, not a boat.

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You are not playing at politics, are you

Cost control is vital, hence my stand on carbon masts. But then carbon masts is a relatively well known technology. Adjustable T-foil rudders as seen on the I-14's and foiling Moth's are still relatively new technology with complex solutions. I can't even imagine what the control system for two controllable T-foil rudders would look like..
I am relatively relaxed on the matter, even if I keep on with my line of arguments, as I think this will be too complex for use.
If a working prototype came along and was clearly superior around the course, but at a cost above GBP£450, I would be among the first in the line of sailors pouring concrete into the bucket for their feet. That is, unless there was an option of homebuilding the same system at a reasonable cost. There is probably not a lot more to say about topic..
What I really dont like is suggestions about limiting the size of T-foils, again based on the fact that we dont know much about them.

Sorry, but I dont think my vote will be accepted. I only have a collection of parts for a boat yet, not a boat. We are going to strip plank the hulls, and the drawings for the stations have not been done yet. Got a sailnumber tough, NOR-25, and the budget is so small that it has slipped under the radar of my wife.

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