Post deleted by twicebitten

Thanks ncik. This is the kind of information I was looking for and will help put my mind to rest the next time an 'A' flies past. However, am I correct in thinking that a slightly narrower F16 could point higher? my last Stealth was 7'6" wide and on occasions did feel to be pointing higher than the 8'2" models although this was probably jeopardising my downwind performance.
Also, what are your thoughts about the F16 upwind performance against the F18. Here in the UK there are some extremely fast 18 sailors who just vanish into the distance but even at Club level I would have thought the F16 has enough in it to make more of an impact. In the light stuff the 18's momentum seems to carry them through the lulls and shifts and as expected when they're twin wiring I haven't much of a hope being single handed. The only saving grace is that at Mumbles Y.C we use Texel so the 'A', F18 and Solo F16 all sail off 1.01 and in the medium wind range the 16 is competitive.

Mark,

Having sailed against a very competitive F18 at Grafham a few times (BUT I was just on the boat so I was making loads of mistakes) I would say the following

1, Light winds the F16 is faster all around the course; this was also shown at the Datcht training weekend when we were sailing around with a couple of guys on a Tiger and I was just just about staying in front of them most of the time.

2, Medium winds Both boats have comparable speeds upwind and the F16 single handed is faster downwind, but they can tack and gybe quicker. The age old problem that the single hander runs out of hands and I was new to the boat. Thus, I need to get better "around the boat".

3, Strong wind. I was making more mistakes, but I could almost stay with them upwind (Max DH, traveller out about 18 inches, plates up about 18 inches) but they were faster downwind as I was not wiring - again more practice in the boat to be able to wire in more wind downhill.

I believe we should still be aiming to be in touch with F18's and "beat them on our day". We will struggle as there is a very great depth of talent in the UK/world F18 fleet. If you were to put yourself into the F18 fleet, where would you put yourself ? Top 20 maybe at the worlds, I bet no 20 is 300+ yards or 30 to 60 seconds behing the winners at the end of a 1 hour race.

Aren't we going a little bit over the top here ?

This guy does ALOT of development and pays for it out of his own pocket. Most of it has already been incorporated into the new boats sold.

He has expressed his desire that his endeavours be kept confidential till his testing has been completed. I think that he has a full right to desire that considering in how many ways he is advancing the F16 design on his own.

This desire is not the result of being unsportsman like or whatever, but by garanteeing a quick and free flow of development. Lets face it, nobody wants a crowd looking on their fingers when they are experimenting. 3rd party suppliers are hesitant to participate if such development projects are scrutinized in public.

Personally I think it to be bad taste by the others if they can't wait a couple of months till the experimenting has been completed.

I'm sorry, but I think some of us are reacting like little children here.

Wouter

Hi Wouter,

I have Deleted the post as I had a PM from the sailor and I had the wrong end of the stick. I didn't realise who you where talking about . Would probably been better if you had said nothing, than to start talking about it and go no further.

No offence intended.

Well yes, It would indeed have been better if I had not written that initial paragraph :

"Also we are losing some upwind performance because of the spinnaker package and the spi halyard running up the mast. I saw a good trick on a singlehanded F16 recently. The owner had moved the spi halyard so that it run up along the forestay instead of along side the mast."

Sadly I was too late to delete it when it became clear everybody was falling on it like a pack of starved wolves.

My mistake definately. I just wanted to point out that the F16 can go some way in optimizing the rig just as the A's have done over the last 30 years. Naturally each improvement will be very small but when you add up 30 years of it then the combined total can be quite large. We F16 sailors have only been at it for 6 years now.

My appologies to everyone. I should never have written down this example.

Quote:

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No offence intended.

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Alright, everything is fine now.

Wouter

Pointing ability is a tricky topic. It has a lot to do with sail shape, ability of the hull to be driven, conditions, foils, etc...

Righting moment is not just about hull beam, crew position is also critical. In the marginal stuff, maybe you could try sitting in off trapeze and flattening the sail shape, point a fraction higher, taking the form drag out of the rig...see what happens, it can't hurt to try it. Then again, I could be talking out of my arse, I'm just throwing up ideas here.

The best option is to find a similar boat with similar speed and do some two boat tuning. There's plenty of resources online to help develop a good testing regime. One day of useful two boat training will bring boat speed results, maybe even to the point of chasing that pesky A-class.

I had a great time yesterday afternoon chasing a farily new Tornado around the Bay. We did a 2.5 mile run on port then another 1.5 mile run on starboard and there was nothing between us apart from the fact they were both sitting in and I was on the wire. Upwind, astonishingly they were pointing higher but I was going lower and faster so after 2 miles I was in front (No Bulls**t) Needless to say I was quite pleased with the way things were going.
What I do want to experiment with whilst two boat tunning is the Mast rotation in light wind conditions, as people around here are talking about having the spanner pointing at the intersection of the rear beam and hull. In other words a lot tighter than I would normally have it.

>> did the OOD at the Nations cup record Lap times.
>> I was catching up the A's on the first race (must
>> remember to count laps).

http://www.mumblesyachtclub.co.uk/results/2007/200705af16.htm

We do have lap times but they are not published - I could get them if you want...

Edited: I misread SSs post.