The quotes above were extracted from another thread and I felt this subject needed its own post.

Jack, please provide more detail into how folks are made to feel unwelcome, I'm assuming this applies more to the open fleet rather than the others.

Just a thought, to a newbie coming into the sport, sitting around the campfire trying to get a word in edgwise when we've all been in the sport forEVER by their perspective, can be a bit daunting.
But I've Never seen anyone treated badly at a regatta EVER based on the boat they sail. Only thing is groupings of boats, and that depends on the RC and how they think someone fits in to the pattern of Portsmouth ratings.
CARY
SEACATS
ACAT BOYER MARK IV

There has been a couple of recent regattas that tout themselves as catering to one or two classes. Which is fine if that is what they want...but when pressed, they say they're open to other classes if they'll show up in force. It's an interesting trend and I can see how that makes some feel unwelcome.

Cary, whenever you're around a campfire, it's hard for anyone to get a word in edgwise, upwise, or sideways.

When I showed up to my 1st regatta with my beat up 1976 5.2, there were others just like me. Today, there are alot of "pretty" boats, and I can see how they may not feel welcome, or maybe somewhat intimidated. But...I dont think its the sailors with the pretty boats, I think its the regatta itself.
There is not really a B or C fleet anymore perse like there used to be.....Shame on us!

My concern is there are situations where people are invited then once there made to feel unwelcome. Since Jack brought it up I'd like to get his take.

As for regattas catering to specific fleets or brand of boat as long as you know ahead of time that it is that type of regatta I don't see an issue. It's not like there is a shortage of regattas to attend.

Maybe the term unwelcome is a little strong, outsider may be a better term. I've felt it and can understand what I think he is saying. I did see a change in attitude in the SE last season. I did feel more welcome and more a part of the "in" crowd. I race open or with the F18s and really could care less about portsmouth. I had some great times last year and when money becomes available I will be back. For me its about going out of my way to engage the other sailors. There are some definate clicks, and attitude/arrogance that I attempt to avoid. I find most of the racers to be very easy to approach and enjoyable. You have to keep coming back to really begin to feel welcome!

You are right Dave. Years ago there used to be "B" and "C" fleets and were quite fun to sail. You didn't worry about having to know the rules book. Now in single fleet open regattas if you are in the mix with the hot shots they'll trounce you with the rule book, not to mention on the water. My wife is not as agressive as some of the sailor women out there and is/was very intimidated by the guys. She hasn't done a race in 10 years, and if momma ain't happy...

So we just sail.

Clayton
S27 Toute de Suite
Nacra 5.2

Dave, you see the numbers are getting we don't have the critical mass to support B and C fleets anymore. If the numbers were there you know the regatta organizers would be happy to create B and C fleets.

Dave you quit coming because your boat aint pretty enough?

It's just not isolated to the campfile... the beach the parking lot the restroom... the list goes on and on.

Damn, has does he know I dont show up?

Dave, I think there is a market to tap into, we just need to be more aggressive to go get them. Then make it interesting for them. I would love to see the guys that have the cool boats and have been around doing a rigging or sail trim clinic at EVERY REGATTA. Make it basic, engage the newbies, and I think we could get the C fleeters out.
Catapalooza was a great idea, now we need to expand on it.
BTW, the new guys arent hanging out on this site either, they are watching baseball with a mothballed boat in the back yard. We have to go find them again

Actually, many of the new guys are actually lurking here. You're right, we really need to get started on the 2nd edition of Catapalooza...let's start some planning / discussion this weekend at BWYD.

Excatly and here's one way how "WE" do it: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=90832

Every single one of us make it happen and are at fault for not getting it done! The days of us being able to show up at a regatta expecting numbers to magically appear are over, long over. Picking up the phone is incredibly effective. The larger the regatta the more diverse group becomes and the clickishness fades into the background noise.

As the author of the post on the SA forum says, pick up the phone emails simply don't cut it.

Awesome! Let's get this going...again!

As I understand it, Trey made his own little catapalooza down in Charleston this past weekend :P

Even way back at my first ever Cat regatta, I've never felt Unwelcome. I think you guys are the most open to all sailors I've ever been around, which is why I keep coming back. Back in my Mono days, everything was Club-centric and fleet centric, and if you weren't from "Their Club" or if you weren't sailing "Their boat" they wouldn't talk to you.

I've NEVER had that experience with you Cat sailors. The "Senior" People are usually the first to jump up and help out the new guy, at least that was my introduction to cat racing when I showed up with a beat down old Hobie 18, no comptip, no beach wheels or toy box, just all the -stuff- tied to the tramp, over in Ft. Pierce in about 1998? The Halloween regatta I think? Rick was there with his Taipan 5.9 with Hooter! I was drooling over it! Brian Karr was there and so was my son, Tommy, age 6 I think. What a mess we were! No idea what the -Hell- we were doing!

So many people dropped what they were doing to help me get the mast up, boat off the trailer, show me around, it was fantastic.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you all, as I was too overwhelmed back then, but without all that help, I would never have made it, or come back.

Thanks for being so supportive and inclusive all you guys/gals, you know who you are. I can't remember everyone, as you were all new to me then.

But to this day, I still have more "fun" from the social aspect than the racing, it's so great just to get to talk with kindred spirits over a few cold ones! The saiing is really only second most fun for me. Sometimes so frustrating, but you senior guys have taught me so much, for free! (well, maybe for a beer or two!)

Thanks!

The quotes above were extracted from another thread and I felt this subject needed its own post.

Jack, please provide more detail into how folks are made to feel unwelcome, I'm assuming this applies more to the open fleet rather than the others. [/quote]

First let me point out that I have demonstrated that folks with my point of view can in fact penetrate the "pointy end" with our inferior platforms.

Secondly, I haven't been treated poorly at any events...more with indifference I would say. Even that doesn't bother me. I'm able to deal with that.

I'm not even complaining, just observing.

It totally baffles me that all these old boats that have to be languishing somewhere, many in excellent condition, do not seem to have owners, new or old, who want to bring them to regattas. My take is that they (owners) feel out of place with the focus on several "modern" classes who can muster a quorum.

In theory, an open class should resolve this, and in fact it often does at some events. However, it is a known quotient that no one really likes handicap races, per se.

I don't know why the F18 and to a lesser degree the F16 class were able to break through the crap into viability and the F20 did not.

I can only go back through the archives for some clues.

I think my "not worthy" feeling comes from a perceived observation that "if it ain't N20, then it don't count and BTW, stay out of our business".

Their day is looming and they are naturally looking for solutions. Top dogs eventually end up on the porch. It is the way of the world.

Why not make a place for old dogs to run in a pack when the time comes? ...and that day ALWAYS does come.

That's my thought without contention implied. Thanks for asking.

I call total B.S. on the premise of this thread.
Cat sailors are the most open group of sailors I've ever been involved with. Anyone going to their first few events of a new undertaking/sport is going to feel like an outsider. That feeling goes away faster the more involved they get. I do a few different sports, I definitely feel like an outsider at kiteboarding because I'm just learning the ropes. I felt like an outsider at competitive shooting until I started to get more involved. I felt like an outsider at car racing when I tried that. The list goes on.
Jack ,
How many people at vintage car events are as open and helpful as catsailors at a regatta. For that matter how would you feel if I wanted to start dictating your rules at vintage events when I don't participate or own a vintage race car( back to the other N-20 thread, you seem to have taken offense to).
Just something to think, lotsa shoes ,try 'em all on.
Todd

Todd... you are missing the point by over interpreting the word "unwelcome"

The facts are..some of the existing fleets of catamarans are getting old and their OD class are in trouble.

Hobie 18... no longer made in the USA. 0 boats at north east championships... aka Madcatter
Hobie 17 .... no longer made ... 0 boats at north east championships.
Nacra 20.... existing fleet is getting older and few new boats are being added to the racing fleet.

OD Fleets that have died in the last several years are
Nacra 6.0's, 5.8's and 5.5 uni's... Prindles and Mysteres.

What do ALL OF THESE owners have in common...
My answer... They own good old boats and are not coming to regattas! AND ... they are probably not going to buy into a different class of boat when their old one is perfectly fine.

If you ask the question... What the hell is missing... I think you get much further.. then asking what is "unwelcome" about our regattas.

You make good points however, that really isn't what we are discussing hereTodd.

You have always been outgoing and friendly in person. However, you seem to have an adgenda that opposes courteous dialoge here.

I have no interest in your situation other than casul interest.

However, this thread isn't BS to a lot of folks.

You must have landed on your head.