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Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: ] #189726
08/31/09 02:33 PM
08/31/09 02:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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France
Originally Posted by andrewscott
Originally Posted by pepin
I now use a small dyneema loop I spliced. It took me while to get the damn thing right. It has a sliding eye on one side which is closing up under load, and a turk knot variation on the other side to get through the eye. Like the attached image (sourced on the net, mine is not that neat!)
Very cool... the one in the image doesn't appear to have a lock stitch.. i take it you add a lock stitch?
There is no lock stitch. You need the eye to slide. When pressure is applied on the loop the eye closes locking the knot in place. To open or close the loop you just slide the eye open and push the knot through, and you can only do that when there is no tension on the loop.

It's a simple bury, the outside is bunched up a little so when pressure is applied the inside slides and close the eye. The knot is done with the two end of the line still inside each other. At the center of the turk knot there is a stopper knot made at the end of the lines. There is no need for a lock stitch anywhere, the turk knot acts as the lock stich.

Now that I know how it's done I need to take measurements to make it right everytime: judging how much line you need to do a turk knot is hard!

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: pepin] #189727
08/31/09 02:44 PM
08/31/09 02:44 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by pepin
Now that I know how it's done I need to take measurements to make it right everytime: judging how much line you need to do a turk knot is hard!


I will trade you a couple 4 packs of Tennent's Super Lager for a set smile

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: ] #189750
08/31/09 04:05 PM
08/31/09 04:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline
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I make those the lazy way.
-Make the eye just like a normal splice by pulling the end back into the core.
-Then cut both the inner and outer core at the same time at the desired length.
-Burn the ends together so that it kind of forms a little stub.
-Then just put a single of figure eight knot in and you are done.

IMHO the Turk knot in the expensive version is just for show.

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: ] #189768
08/31/09 05:27 PM
08/31/09 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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Originally Posted by andrewscott
Originally Posted by pepin
Now that I know how it's done I need to take measurements to make it right everytime: judging how much line you need to do a turk knot is hard!


I will trade you a couple 4 packs of Tennent's Super Lager for a set smile
Sorry man, I only drink real ale or champagne. Not super lager!

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: Tony_F18] #189769
08/31/09 05:34 PM
08/31/09 05:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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sounds like my technique, except I torch the end after tying the knot with what I call a "flame thrower" type lighter that gets to high enough temp to melt the dyneema a little.

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: Tony_F18] #189770
08/31/09 05:34 PM
08/31/09 05:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
I make those the lazy way.
-Make the eye just like a normal splice by pulling the end back into the core.
-Then cut both the inner and outer core at the same time at the desired length.
-Burn the ends together so that it kind of forms a little stub.
-Then just put a single of figure eight knot in and you are done.

IMHO the Turk knot in the expensive version is just for show.
I just tried Tony's method. Duh. Doesn't look as good as a turk knot, but works just fine and it's way way way quicker to make. I don't think I'm going to do a turk knot again! Thanks!

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: PTP] #189793
08/31/09 08:51 PM
08/31/09 08:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Originally Posted by PTP
which part are you saying to lock stitch?
can't do a brummell splice or lock stitch on the splice because because you need to loosen the splice when it goes over the knot and to be able to undo it

Well, I went ahead and made a couple.

In my first attempt, I tied a chinese button knot first, and buried the end. Then I put an eye in the other end. Unfortunately, I tested opening and closing the eye before putting in a lockstitch and I inadvertently pulled the eye out. At that point, I decided that the bury wasn't long enough anyway, and I should splice the eye first.

On the second try, I did an extra-long bury on the eye, and put a lockstitch in (near the tail of the bury) just to keep the loop in place while I tied the button knot. Then I tied a knife-lanyard-knot and cut off the end flush under the knot. I don't think the lockstitch is structurally necessary, as the stop-knot binds the core in place.

It wasn't that difficult. The hardest part was burying the tail of the eye, and only because I was using too large a fid. It was an interesting exercise, and I'm glad I did it even though I use a snap shackle and don't plan to change it out.

Regards,
Eric


Attached Files
DyneemaShackle.jpg (152 downloads)
Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: Isotope235] #189830
09/01/09 05:57 AM
09/01/09 05:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
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I no longer use a fid for burying, I use stainless wire. Starting with around 1m50 of wire bend it over onto itself, crimp the free ends toguether and then slide a plastic ball with the small hole toward the crimp. To do a bury slide the wire inside the cover from far back, exit where you want to finish the eye, put the free end in between the two wires, pull it back using the plastic ball to bunch up the cover.

A wire is the only way to deal with a 3mm dynnema line anyway as the smallest fid only works to 4mm.

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: pepin] #189836
09/01/09 06:46 AM
09/01/09 06:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171
Cary, NC
Storz Offline
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Anything wrong with just using a normal pin type shackle like this other than it take a bit longer...?

[Linked Image]


Ryan
1983 Isotope
Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: Storz] #189844
09/01/09 07:59 AM
09/01/09 07:59 AM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Storz
Anything wrong with just using a normal pin type shackle like this other than it take a bit longer...?


Nothing wrong with shakles except that using HM line can save miniscule amounts of weight (that can add up), probably costs a little less, requires skills and most importantly (as Tami used to say) and it sure looks cool!

I am simply looking for excuses to use splices as i have now purchased 3 different sets (or types) of fids... (for the cost of about 50 shackles)

PS the Brion Toss Fid (about $75) works almost the same exact way as Pepin's wire except it has a 1mm loop of dyneema to "grab" the tail and pull it through (instead of pushing like a Sampson/Selma fid does) for the bury

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: ] #189846
09/01/09 08:15 AM
09/01/09 08:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by andrewscott
Originally Posted by Storz
Anything wrong with just using a normal pin type shackle like this other than it take a bit longer...?


Nothing wrong with shakles except that using HM line can save miniscule amounts of weight (that can add up), probably costs a little less, requires skills and most importantly (as Tami used to say) and it sure looks cool!


All that is well and good but don't you still need a shackle to go through the "swivel/button" at the top of the block? So your actually adding weight and an extra failure point unless your running the line through the little hole in the swivel,in which case it would seem to cut it alot faster.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #189848
09/01/09 08:23 AM
09/01/09 08:23 AM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
All that is well and good but don't you still need a shackle to go through the "swivel/button" at the top of the block? So your actually adding weight and an extra failure point unless your running the line through the little hole in the swivel,in which case it would seem to cut it alot faster.


I agree.. i think the thread got off track a bit and we were no longer talking just about connecting the blocks but how to make dyneema loops (to be used in other places)

Re: S - hook for upper mainsheet block to boom [Re: Cheshirecatman] #189854
09/01/09 09:01 AM
09/01/09 09:01 AM

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DougSnell
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Originally Posted by Cheshirecatman
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
IMHO these are really the best for attaching the main:
[Linked Image]





I use the same.


In 7 years I never had one of these fail. Boom connection to mast did. But not this. And easy to connect when the wind to blowing good.

Doug

Last edited by DougSnell; 09/01/09 09:02 AM.
Downhaul wire replacement [Re: Isotope235] #189872
09/01/09 11:42 AM
09/01/09 11:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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I went ahead and made another dyneema loop. This one is intended to replace the wire loop that connects my mainsail tack to the downhaul blocks (around the boom gooseneck). I did a simple bury for the eye, exited the line, put in a locking brummel, and then reburied the tail. At the other end, I tied a chinese-button-knot and buried it's tail as well. The entire loop (except for cutting off the button tail and burying it) was tied from the "spool-end", so I only wasted a few inches of line.

I'm going to have to do something to keep the line from snagging on the gooseneck (I think wrapping with tape may suffice). My hope is that this will be a little easier to connect than getting the pin in the small shackle.

Again, it was fun to do. I hope it works.

Attached Files
DownhaulWireReplacement.jpg (168 downloads)
Downhaul wire replacement
Re: Downhaul wire replacement [Re: Isotope235] #189879
09/01/09 12:02 PM
09/01/09 12:02 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Isotope42
Again, it was fun to do. I hope it works.


looks good.

Re: Downhaul wire replacement [Re: ] #189884
09/01/09 12:35 PM
09/01/09 12:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171
Cary, NC
Storz Offline
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Cary, NC
Eric - I am doing something very similar on my boat with Dynema, I have that same cable for the downhaul but it was too long. I am just using a doubled over loop of dynema and it works like a champ, I can get more adjustment out of the downhaul now as its not block to block right away like it was with the cable.


Ryan
1983 Isotope
Re: Downhaul wire replacement [Re: Storz] #189906
09/01/09 01:39 PM
09/01/09 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline
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Baltic  Offline
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Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
I like the fast pin solution of my Cap very much. Absolutely reliable and easy to release in difficult situations.

Attached Files
Bild 1.jpg (142 downloads)

F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: Downhaul wire replacement [Re: Baltic] #189916
09/01/09 03:27 PM
09/01/09 03:27 PM

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andrewscott
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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Baltic
I like the fast pin solution of my Cap very much. Absolutely reliable and easy to release in difficult situations.


where is the fast pin? i only see shackles

Re: Downhaul wire replacement [Re: ] #189919
09/01/09 03:57 PM
09/01/09 03:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
Daytona Beach
Jeff_Bowers Offline
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Daytona Beach

My preference. Just attach to top of the upper block.

Attached Files
Last edited by Jeff_Bowers; 09/03/09 07:20 AM.

Jeff Bowers
Mystere 6.0(sometimes XL)
Re: Downhaul wire replacement [Re: ] #190067
09/03/09 04:58 AM
09/03/09 04:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline
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Baltic  Offline
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Kiel, Germany
The bolt of the twisted shackle has no screw thread. It keeps in place due to the tension of the sail and is secured by the loop of (in this case) black shock cord.


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
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