IIRC, the H-16 was about the same price as a Toyota Corolla when it first came out. Now it is much less, fwiw.

The simple fact of the matter is that it's a free market, it only makes sense that a provider will charge what the market will bare. Even at these prices I would have had to wait 6 months for an Infusion and even then there was no guarantee I could get it before North Americans. I bought a C2 because it was sitting in a warehouse waiting for my check. I think most would admit that the F18 designs have converged and that only thing left is price. If the margins are as fat as you think they are prices will fall or providers will move to a market where they can make money.

I think the biggest thing that changed is that there is no longer the perception that the Tiger (a 10+ year old design) can win any regatta. The perception may or may not be based in reality. But, it means that sailors are willing to pay a premium for what they perceive as a faster boat.

Manufacturers are responding to this by updating their boats and selling costly upgrades like long daggerboards.

This perception may be based because a new design has won Worlds the past few years. So, hopefully the 2012 worlds is not won on a Cirrus R or a Falcon F18 (sorry Matt).

That conveniently neglects the effects of inflation, which are significant.

My father bought our first Hobie 16 (new) in 1973 - $1250. That's $6400 in today's money.

I bought my first Hobie 16 (new) in 1983 - $3400.
That's $7830 in today's money.

I forget what I paid for my second 16 - it was an '89 nationals boat, so it was essentially used.

I bought my third Hobie 16 (new) in 1998 - $6345
That's $8920 in today's money.

My current 16, bought new in 2007 was $7545
That's $8350 in today's money. (Rob Jerry cut me a deal.)

So a brand-new 16 costing $10K in 2012 is not that much different than ones sold a long time ago on an inflation adjusted basis. And the new ones today are a lot better than the new ones in the '70s and 80's.

I think the biggest factor is that demand has fallen. Not nearly as many boats selling. Of the boats that are selling the market share is split between about 7 companies. I think if you could guarentee a sale of 100 boats to a manufacturer you could get them at a really good price.

It's tooling and startup costs for each new design. The designs change every 3 years or so for all the companies.

We asked for this moving away from one design. I saw this coming and it's here. I actually thought it would be worse but the F18 class has done a good job of controlling costs.

need to get a single wave hull down from Pt Pleasent N.J. to central Fla will pay fair price
Thanks Kyle

Italian trash... besides, I only steal Porsches.
---Charlie Sheen, No Man's Land

I'll contend rig design (sails+mast), running rigging layout and platform reliability are the keys to winning a regatta from a boat standpoint. The crew makes the largest difference, and the top crews are out practicing every day. Just because you buy the 2011 World Champ Boat (C2 btw) doesn't mean you are going to win. A lot of hype has gone into the whole "new hull shape" every 2-3 years deal. We haven't seen the manufacturers testing, and I'm sure some changes result in real performance improvements (beam placement for example), but I suspect a Wildcat rig, sails and foils on the Tiger would be very competitive with the new boat (just one example).

The Infusion hasn't changed in several years, save for the advent of updated sails and the Mk. 2 extreme dagger boards.

Sure, new boat prices are up to pay for some of these developments. Boat prices aren't going down anytime soon, raw material costs are up and shipping costs are up, partly due to the increased price of petroleum based products. If you are complaining about new boat prices, there are still plenty of F-18's on the market in the $10K range, that in conjunction with new sails are still competitive boats. The Hobie 16 is a great boat but few things in life beat a 22+ kt sustained downwind spinnaker run.

You know I just realized what is great about this forum?

It is the only place where somebody in whole World really cares and listens when you complain about how much Sailing costs.

My last H16 was laid up in Australia. 2006 model.




ummm, I think everyone started on a H16, so yeah, I'd say beginner boat. And it is a pitchpole machine. How many H16's can dip the tack of the jib into the water, and pull out of it?







Tru dat!


I don't have anything against the H16, but the H16 crowd is just rabid about their love for that boat, and you guys are waaaaayyyy to f-ing sensitive. Anything short of showering the boat with praise is viewed negatively.






(edit)- You guys are forgetting another factor, the US dollar is frickin' worthless right now compared to the Euro, (Wild-Cat, NACRA, Cirrus, etc), and the Australian Dollar is coming on hard affecting the AHPC Prices. When I bought my first Viper it was ~$.70 to the US dollar, right now its $1.03US to the Australian Dollar. The boats have not gone up 30% in price.