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#265888 - 10/09/13 02:05 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: David Ingram]
samc99us Offline
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Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 778
Loc: Solomon's Island, MD
Originally Posted By: David Ingram
Originally Posted By: Jeff.Dusek
Current discussion is to keep the same main and increase size of the jib and spinnaker. The world council is trying to act very cautiously on this issue, and is seeking input from the technical committee, builders, sailmakers, and class membership through the poll. If anyone has additional comments they can also pass them along to Mike or I. This issue could also be a topic of discussion at the US class meeting in Sarasota.

So far, I am very impressed with the diligence the class is putting into even considering such a large change.


The only way to improve the spin performance is to increase the luff length which creates issues in carrying it. The next issue and is the big one for me is that it's another opportunity for abuse. I don't want to see teams carrying the larger spin when they don't meet the weight for the sail plan. You and I both know this will be abused. If you can tell me every light team in the fleet is carrying the proper corrector weight at all regatta's then I might be able to get onboard otherwise it's just another option that won't attract new teams and carries more hassle than it's worth. Don't forget the Frenchies lobbied hard and won for light teams to carry the larger sail plan and carry the corrector weight and their argument was all the development was on the large sail plan won't this create the same perceived disparity?

If this does go through will smaller teams be allowed to carry corrector weight so they can run the larger sail plan? It all gets so complicated for how much gain in participation?

All this is coming from a guy that has sailed 380 for the entire time he has been sailing F18's. So, in my opinion it aint broke so don't try and fix it.


I agree with Dave on this issue and have stated so elsewhere. We sail at 310 lbs naked bone dry naked, but have been carrying 17 lbs of lead at all events (yes, 7 lbs more, its easier to loose lead than find it), to carry the larger sail plan. I have evaluated switching to the smaller sail plan, but every sail maker we've spoken with says it isn't as refined as the large sail plan. This is somewhat ironic, because the smaller sail plan is very close in area to the Nacra 17, a boat that is ideal for our crew weight, but is 100 lbs lighter. I guess I don't follow how the smaller jib and spinnaker are less refined, given they are just smaller versions of the large sail plan...what I do know is I can go to the gym some more and we can hold down the large spinnaker and be quick. If a 2013 small jib had equal refinement to the large jib, we might loose some drag upwind in over 12kts and hence be faster round the course even carrying lead+large spinnaker. Unfortunately no one is 100% accurate about the weather for a 5 day event. I am sure someone has tried switching sail plans at an event before...how are we going to police a third sail plan, when we aren't even strictly policing weight due to lack of resources and effort?


Edited by samc99us (10/09/13 02:08 PM)
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#265897 - 10/09/13 04:33 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: Dazz]
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 446
Loc: Boston, Ma
Currently at 112 responses from all over the world. Please submit responses by tonight as I will be closing the poll. Thanks for all the feedback.
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#265916 - 10/09/13 07:02 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: Dazz]
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 3819
Loc: Northfield Mn
As an outsider looking in, this doesn't seem like a great idea to me. Just my $.02.

If my F18 membership were current, I would vote but being that it isn't, I will not be.
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#265920 - 10/09/13 08:31 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: Dazz]
samc99us Offline
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Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 778
Loc: Solomon's Island, MD
KISS. Big boy teams here aren't switching because of boat cost. A used N20 is about $5-6K, new sails add $3K, you've got an $8K platform that is faster than a F18 in under 5kts of breeze (typical Chesapeake summer sailing condition). We've done enough this season to show we are fast in all other conditions and can hold on in the light. Adding the XL sail plan probably won't convince the two teams at 380+ lbs to switch to the F18.
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#266030 - 10/10/13 08:33 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: samc99us]
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 4620
Loc: Naples, FL
conversely, you could develop an N20 small sailplan? Even though it's smod
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#266067 - 10/11/13 12:21 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: Dazz]
samc99us Offline
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Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 778
Loc: Solomon's Island, MD
Lol, SMOD...one of the many reasons we don't have another N20 or a Nacra 17. F18 all the way.
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#266070 - 10/11/13 01:46 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: Dazz]
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 446
Loc: Boston, Ma
Poll is now closed. I put together a summary of results from the poll and emails I received and passed it to Mike. He will review and submit to the world council on behalf of the US class association. Thanks everyone for playing.
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#266071 - 10/11/13 01:53 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: Dazz]
Tony_F18 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/04
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Why not just make it public?, keeps everything transparent.

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#266072 - 10/11/13 02:04 PM Re: big boy sails - voting is now open [Re: Dazz]
Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 446
Loc: Boston, Ma
I will check with about making the poll results public, shouldn't be an issue. I'm not on the world council, so not really my call, just trying to be helpful.
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#266520 - 10/28/13 12:15 AM Re: big boy sails - polling is now open [Re: Dazz]
Dazz Offline
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
looks like its going to happen.

Item No: 13.

Development of XL sails. There was a suggestion from USA, and then supported by Holland, that there ought to be “larger sails for larger sailors”. We have done considerable number of emails and surveys in US on this subject and the Council needs to consider the development for final decision.

The final summary is that :

Crews 175 kg and over can sail with standard mainsail, a jib of 4.5 sqm OR 4.6 sqm, and a spinnaker of 23 sqm.

IT was thought better not to have rules on jib or spinnaker cuts but to leave that to individual sail makers.

The XL sails cannot be used in any National or International regatta for a trial period of TWO years.

The serious message must go out that this is NOT a rule change, but an addition to the weight category and does not effect the rules in any way.

There was concern that some sailors under 175 kg would buy these sails for long distance and handicap racing, therefore breaking one of the Guiding Principles for F18 sailors, that we don’t have different handicaps for F18 boats.

We are still awaiting final technical information, concerning the sailing characteristics and likely performance data, which will be forwarded shortly.
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