The ref does check the air pressure - they get the balls from each team about 2 hours before game time and inspect them for pressure and any other issues (scuffing, etc.). The teams can have used them previously but they have to be in "new condition". They apparently checked them again at half time after the colts complained about it and that's when it was found and corrected.

I'm a little confused that you thought it good idea after just recently establishing that a political thread chased people away from this forum to start this thread. IMO, this doesn't belong on a sailing forum.
This whole thing has been completely rediculous. That Pats admit when they cheat! But seriously, I hope you all saw the press conference yesterday as Belicheck said "this is the end of this subject for a long time for me".
Now for you real football fans... Bring on Seattle!

Billecheck still isn't convinced that "Spygate" was cheating, or that no one else was doing it (see presser over the weekend).

The SNL skit was completely predictable. Could have been much funnier. The part about Billecheck throwing Brady under the bus was spot-on from earlier in the week, and absolutely hilarious.

I can't wait for him/them to be gone...

Mike

Back to the PV=nRT, I think the gas (air) inside the ball would change more dramatically than the tension of the "pigskin" (actually cowhide, but whatever).

So the ball is filled by pumping air into it (generating some heat within the ball) under "ambient conditions" (78 deg F./ 60% RH).

We will assume that the air volume (amount of air originally introduced) remains constant. In addition, we'll assume the ball exterior remains constant (if it were horribly deflated, someone would have noticed)

Ball then goes to playing field which is quite cold (compared to 78 degrees ambient temp). Temperature of air inside ball is reduced.

Since we're assuming the volume of the ball remains (somewhat) constant, the Ideal Gas law above would indicate that the pressure is reduced according to the formula, proportional to the temperature reduction.

What are you talking about?
During Saturday's press conference he basically said We got caught red handed for spygate, they have our guy on film, we did our penalty, it's over.

There was more to it. He kept saying that everyone makes hand signals viewed by "80,000 people every week" and that they didn't think taping that would be wrong (I think he even added a "but whatever" showing what he really thinks about that). I didn't see that on the first news blip, either.

Mike

I think that they were pumped up in the sauna and then put into play.

How much of a difference would it make for the balls to be slightly deflated? At some point they would become harder to throw. Everyone is acting like it makes a giant improvement to have them slightly deflated.

And of course the Colts balls were properly inflated; you'd better check that before you complained!

Bellicheck is very clear ... he is playing a game with rules... and the name of the game is to win and the point of rules is for them to be bent or break them for your advantage... They have refs to catch this... if caught... you pay your fine and move on... IT AIN'T CHEATING.. This is not about honor or good versus evil or right versus wrong.. . its about playing with rules and around them...

He was not cheating by his actions in spygate either... no rules in play... anyone could have taped that stuff... How it gets spun ... even after the fine leveled and well after the fact ... is "whatever" to him... just a SANFU ...the NFL pretense of defending honor was just BS to him. (Hey... the NFL had to deal with What seemed "WRONG"... just like they decided to dock Ray Rice two games... and then took another bite of the apple with a year suspension because it seemed WRONG again... "Whatever.."

For Bellicheck... the integrity of the game is not in question... Indy had their own balls, prepped as they liked to make the tradoffs that the Indy team liked... At half time... the ref did not like his teams balls after the INdy guys complained and so they inflated them more... OK the fine of 25k is the cost.... whatever.
This is just the American way of doing business..

Sorry if you thought of your NFL football team as noble warriors defending your town's honor and contesting who played better that day...

It comes down to the SNL guys being correct... Will the equip manager rat out his quarterback and team? It's too bad that the US took all of the torture techniques off the books... What better way to get at something that bothers American's sense of honor and fair play. (GRIN)

THIS is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. While the Pats disappoint me, this guys really irritates me...



Mike

So... the verdict is in...

The equipment manager did it. ... (who would have thunk)

Brady refused to give up his text messages... So, the report concludes that circumstantial evidence is that he knew.

Still the question... cheating or gamesmanship?...
How different is this from an O line coach teaching lineman how to Hold without getting caught?

What should be the PENALTY for gamesmanship?

Does he deserve an asterik in the record book?

Pretty sure this quote from earlier in the thread just about sums up the asterisk issue.

They can either prove it, or not. Sounds to me like they couldn't find enough proof to really pin it on anyone. Circumstantial "evidence" is nonsense in a case like this.

Mike

Actually he's punished because he refused to cooperate fully. It's funny how you ignore the facts because your a fan boy. Try the honest approach, you should be pissed that he chose to embarrass himself and his team and for that matter all fans of the team and the league as a whole. When you cheat you steal from others. Your happy with that? And is any wonder we find ourselves with more rules and laws and oversight. It's because of people like this that cheat and steal. Frankly he's getting off light.

to break a rule or law... hmm... I never think of myself as a cheater when I break the law and speed, double park, spit on the sidewalk. I simply don't obey the law and take my chances with the penalty.

So... there must be some other element in the notion of cheating...

from Wikopedia



I don't think of Jerry Rice as cheating either. I see the sport of football as having no moral high ground. There is NO CODE OF HONOR in place in football. What they have are rules... if you break a rule and get away with it.... Gamesmanship.... If you break a rule and get caught... Penalty. You choose to Obey the rule or not.

The NFL suspends your butt when you are caught for DUI... You broke one of the rules negotiated between players and owners. They don't say you cheated... The NFL owners and players have a PR problem with personal screw-ups... so they solve it with a rule.. They penalize the player or owner. (Irsay of the Colts)

Brady got caught.. He more then likely broke a rule... He then refused to cooperate with the organization he is apart of and so he incontrovertibly broke another rule. He pays the penalty. I can't call him a cheater... He just got caught at gamesmanship. 4 games for him seems about right....

The team penalty is weak!!! They lead the league in fewest fumbles for years...with few notable running backs in the list... a soft football is much easier to hold on to... The TEAM should be blasted for 4 or more years with significant penalties!

Fanboy? Not even close. Read through this thread again for my thoughts on Brady and the team. I've actually shared my thoughts on Brady through the years here. Hint: I'm not remotely a fan of him as any sort of role model.

Keep in mind, the media today is incredibly biased in their reporting. Where you live will probably dramatically alter what you hear. Couple that with your own biases, and we'll all reach different conclusions.

My point, though, was much simpler. They think he cheated, can't prove it, and penalized him anyways.

Mike

so, wait... you can only "cheat" if there is some 'code of honor' in whatever sport or occupation you're considering?

If you are driving faster than the speed limit, you are indeed cheating (and technically breaking a law).

I guess the real question in that situation would be "Are you upset when you find yourself speeding, or are you upset when you find the blinky lights behind you?"

Seems no one is really sorry about something until they're caught. So to me, I guess they're really only sorry about getting caught...

"Deflate my Tip!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FAT_pRqo3w

Oh that Tom Brady! Instant Humma!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEm0t5Wc11U

They need to fire Billicheck and trade Brady, so the next Superbowl win isn't tainted. At this point, proof obviously isn't needed, simply an accusation. No one outside of New England will ever respect anything that these two are involved with ever again, regardless of the scores of each game.

Mike

Yup... when you break your word to honor the rules... then you are a cheat...
If I count cards in black jack... am I a cheater?

With out a code of honor, the line between gamesmanship and cheating is arbitrary.

When you get married, you make public vows.... give your word to honor your vow. Therefore when you screw around... you are cheating... You are NOT breaking a law just a rule that you gave your word to honor.

I see speeding as when I am breaking the law... and I am not sorry that the blinky lights are behind me... I am pissed. I don't see any moral high ground in traffic laws or NFL rules. I certainly don't remember taking an oath to honor all traffic law. I agreed to respect and agree that I should respect them most of the time as a matter of safety and workability.

I just think that the term cheating is misapplied here and don't think that we need throw moral stones at the guy, ie... demand that he is sorry and contrite ... especially for breaking rules in a game made up for mass entertainment. So, I doubt Jerry Rice is sorry that he used and got away with stickem on his hands.... ditto Tom Brady.

Hey... if the NFL had a moral high ground .... they would demand the Washington football team change the name Redskins to something other then an ancient racial slur. The NFL is a rule based organization... the don't do morals.

Does anyone really believe Brady/Patriots were the only team in the entire league doing this? Really? Seriously?

They were just the ones who got caught.

Why are all the other big name QB's being so quiet about this? Not a peep of condemnation from Farve, Manning, Rogers, Joe Montana, nothing. Not a word. Why not?

Yeah, that's why.

So.... Timbo... it's not cheating... its gamesmanship..... they all play with their balls?