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#89409 - 04/16/07 05:55 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
Mark P Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 953
Loc: Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Hi Rolf
here are a few snaps of my Landy kite. Definitely a different luff shape than the Gran Segel, as the luff appears straight but there is a lot of shape behind the luff as I couldn't fold the kite the same as yours to produce a straight line as a datum point.


Attachments
104850-spi2.jpg (173 downloads)

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#89410 - 04/16/07 05:58 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: Mark P]
Mark P Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 953
Loc: Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
From the foot up the luff


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104851-spi3.jpg (181 downloads)

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#89411 - 04/16/07 06:43 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: Mark P]
Rolf_Nilsen Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 4345
Loc: West coast of Norway
Thanks for the photos Mark. Fun to see how much apparant draft there seem to be in Landys F-16 kites.

Having a right line in the first fold is nice and should be possible, but it's the second fold you need to work with. No wrinkles in the fold and let the luff tape take it's natural position. It looks like there is a rather severe crease at the bottom of the second fold, just to the left of the rather nice concrete brick you used to hold it down
I am unable to download the first image unfortunately.
If you really want some useful information about the shape of the spi, try to get some photos of the spi while flying. Just lie down under the spi pole and shoot upwards into the trimmed spi. Easiest to get a good result if done on land With such a photo, it's relatively straight forward to analyze hos much draft there is and where it is.

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#89412 - 04/19/07 12:13 AM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Michigan
Got a question....
Are all (I guess most would be a better term) spins designed to have a luff that adheres to the 90 deg fist deal? Someone who knows what he is talking about once said that my spin (smyth, a little old) is designed for a "tight" luff. What would that mean? tighter than the 90 fist? What really happens if the luff is allowed to fall off some either by simply having the spin pole higher vs loosening the tack line?
I am slow compared to other boats and am wondering why

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#89413 - 04/20/07 12:14 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: PTP]
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 3348
Quote:

. . .I am slow compared to other boats and am wondering why




Join the club!

I'll make a small wager that the main problem is sailing the proper course i.e. keeping 90 degree apparent wind. It takes time to develope that skill.

The cure is to get in all the time on the water you can. Happy sailing!!

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#89414 - 04/20/07 12:39 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: fin.]
Rolf_Nilsen Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 4345
Loc: West coast of Norway
Pete, you sail with the wind at 90deg apparant when going downwind with the spi? Is that a normal apparant wind for going downwind on a F-16? Have you tried going higher to build more apparant and drive off with the higher speed?

PTP: The 90deg rule is a very loose rule. I believe it originated in the Tornado class with a certain setup there, but the class have since gone to a tighter luff. How loose the luff should be depends absolutely on the design of the spi. The trend is for tighter and tighter luffs on fast boats (like your 18HT). I have never seen a Smyth spi, so I dont know how he does it, but why not experiment a bit?
If you let out on the tack line or halyard, you loose much of the draft in the forward part of the spi and move it back. Leech will open more and likely flutter. You will be able to go higher against the wind with the spi like that, but sideways forces will increase a lot compared to your forward forces.

Why not supply some photos taken from below the spi while it's sheeted in its sailing position, and you will perhaps get some more useful responses. Post them here, and I'll run them trough Accumeasure.
Quote:

If you really want some useful information about the shape of the spi, try to get some photos of the spi while flying. Just lie down under the spi pole and shoot upwards into the trimmed spi. Easiest to get a good result if done on land With such a photo, it's relatively straight forward to analyze hos much draft there is and where it is.
Quote:


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#89415 - 04/20/07 01:10 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 3348
Quote:

Pete, you sail with the wind at 90deg apparant when going downwind with the spi? Is that a normal apparant wind for going downwind on a F-16? Have you tried going higher to build more apparant and drive off with the higher speed?




Yes and yes. But maybe I'm wrong! It wouldn't be the first time.

I know! How 'bout a whole new thread!!

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#89416 - 04/20/07 02:44 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Michigan
Quote:

Pete, you sail with the wind at 90deg apparant when going downwind with the spi? Is that a normal apparant wind for going downwind on a F-16? Have you tried going higher to build more apparant and drive off with the higher speed?

PTP: The 90deg rule is a very loose rule. I believe it originated in the Tornado class with a certain setup there, but the class have since gone to a tighter luff. How loose the luff should be depends absolutely on the design of the spi. The trend is for tighter and tighter luffs on fast boats (like your 18HT). I have never seen a Smyth spi, so I dont know how he does it, but why not experiment a bit?
If you let out on the tack line or halyard, you loose much of the draft in the forward part of the spi and move it back. Leech will open more and likely flutter. You will be able to go higher against the wind with the spi like that, but sideways forces will increase a lot compared to your forward forces.

Why not supply some photos taken from below the spi while it's sheeted in its sailing position, and you will perhaps get some more useful responses. Post them here, and I'll run them trough Accumeasure.
Quote:

If you really want some useful information about the shape of the spi, try to get some photos of the spi while flying. Just lie down under the spi pole and shoot upwards into the trimmed spi. Easiest to get a good result if done on land With such a photo, it's relatively straight forward to analyze hos much draft there is and where it is.
Quote:






Good idea... I will take some this weekend. I imagine a lot of it probably has to do with the spin being a little blown out, but I will get some pics.

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#89417 - 04/20/07 05:20 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes [Re: PTP]
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Michigan
Not very good wind (if there were I wouldn't be flying the spin on land!) but here are a few pics...


Attachments
105259-P1010001.JPG (163 downloads)



Edited by PTP (04/20/07 05:29 PM)

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#89418 - 04/20/07 05:24 PM Re: F-16 spi shapes *DELETED* [Re: PTP]
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Michigan
Post deleted by PTP


Edited by PTP (04/20/07 05:29 PM)

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