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#96021 - 01/14/07 12:03 PM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: Mary]
grob Offline
addict

Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 545
Loc: Brighton, UK
If you put the T-shape shoe keel far enough back you may get some of the stability benefits of a T-toil rudder system.

Gareth

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#96022 - 01/14/07 01:49 PM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: Buccaneer]
Dermot Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 890
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
Quote:

Here's one of the skegs..



Is that from the Teddy ? - because the impression I had was that the T bit was much bigger, heavier, looked like a railway track and definitely "Agricultural" And the boat was very slow. The other kids were sailing Dart 16s and loving it
_________________________
Dermot
Shadow 075
www.catamaran.ie

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#96023 - 01/14/07 03:48 PM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: Buccaneer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I vote for increased length as long as it is less than 13 ft. So, 3.9m. The reasons are both selfish and practical. I am 5’11” 175lb (~ 1.8m 80kg) low body fat. If your calculations are correct, I defiantly would not build one to use for weeknight sails. Through design, we should be able to minimize the penalty incurred by smaller sailors. We can always make the smaller sailors’ boat smaller than the box. It would be nice to have the boat perform while we are taking are children out to learn.

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#96024 - 01/14/07 03:54 PM Re: A choice to make ...
Anonymous
Unregistered


If it is more than 13ft, then it should be called the F13. I would be fine with that. I do see the point of saving on wood, but if you have any curves it will be longer than 1.5 sheets of ply (at least in the usa, I am not sure of metric sheet sizes). Plus the scarf takes a good 6-8 inches out, so it does not seem to me we will save much wood.

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#96025 - 01/14/07 04:05 PM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: Wouter]
_flatlander_ Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1184
Loc: 38.912, -95.37
Upon review of www.cdc.gov/growthcharts and conversations over the last five days, here's my two cents.

From talking to a small group of cat sailors a general consensus is that there are some expression of desire amongst kids to skipper their own boat, or a parent's desire to show them that they can (case of timid child) skipper a boat around the age of 10 or 11. One person questioned stated she was "forced to skipper" by her father. From year's of coaching, and involved in, youth sports this is a concern, at least in the US, where parents (esp. fathers) want to relive their childhood through there children. This is of note regarding existing sailors, but probably of no relevance to a new sailing parent and child. The general opinion was the Wave is a bit too much to handle at this age.

Reviewing the charts reveal these weights at 50 percentile (average)
Girls at age 10, 32kg
Girls at age 19, 57kg

Boys at age 10, 32kg
Boys at age 19, 69kg

Of note boys weight is still heading up rather sharply at 19 while girls start to level off (by comparison) at 16. Girls also attain a plateau in height at 15, whereas in boys this occurs closer to 17.5 years. Interesting also at 13 years old girls and boys are about the same weight 45 and 46kg.

Wouter based on capacity vs. hull length it looks as though something towards 3.90 mtr looks inviting. I can easily envision a pair of kids up to 90kg (13 yo) wanting to sail (play, not race) together.

Of course this does not preclude a 12 foot version made from a minimal amount of 4x8 sheet material. I agree with the notion of replacing the originals with a faster design and passing down the starter hulls.

Tacking ability edges out looks for a starter hull design, especially from a newbie standpoint.


Edited by flatlander18 (01/14/07 04:08 PM)

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#96026 - 01/14/07 09:11 PM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: Mary]
TigerMike Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 329
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Quote:

Yes, I think that 'shoe keel' is what I was talking about. It worked phenomenally well on the Witness 35(?). What difference does it make if it LOOKS agricultural but works great? You guys are SO superficial.

Didn't you ever hear that song that goes: "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make an ugly woman your wife"?




Because if you want kids to be interested it has to also look "Cool".

Tiger Mike

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#96027 - 01/14/07 09:16 PM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: Wouter]
TigerMike Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 329
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Quote:


Quote:


it will start getting further from the objective if you go more





What would you name as our objectives ?

Wouter




Has anybody actually put the projects stated objectives in a concise document??? I may have missed it (perhaps a sticky at the top of the forum would be a good idea) but a brainstorming session and then the aggreed objectives put into 1 post will help people to stay on track.

Tiger Mike

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#96028 - 01/14/07 11:23 PM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: TigerMike]
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/16/01
Posts: 9582
Loc: North-West Europe
_________________________
Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

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#96029 - 01/15/07 01:06 AM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: _flatlander_]
sail7seas Offline
addict

Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 436
Loc: FL
Would it be possible/practical for a F12 to vary the beam(width) according to crew weight?

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#96030 - 01/15/07 03:49 AM Re: A choice to make ... [Re: sail7seas]
Anonymous
Unregistered


sail area may be better because we don't want to make small childrens boats less stable.

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