Guys,

Some of you must really learn to understand what it actually said and not inteprete things in what you expect is said.

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Im with Mary on this, I have said it before but I think there is too much emphasis on performance, I don't think racing is something that kids want to do.

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It is not me but actually you who are putting to much emphasis on performance. I only wanted it to perform sufficiently well, You however make it out into meaning that F12 is a racing cat. I never wrote that.

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I would rather go for Darryls F14 than Wouters F12/F13. I am interstested to see Phils concept.

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This is soooooo misguided. The F14 by Darryl is so much overpowered and it actually very close to F18 and F16 is real preformance that it will scare the hell out of youngsters. That F14 is actually 25 % faster then the F12 I'm proposing.

How do you explain your opinion that F12 is too much focussed on performance, racing and too much to handle for youths and then turn around and prefer the F14 for the same group of persons ?

I mean, Please excuse me for saying so, but are you truly serious here ?

No personal offense intended.

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The Catsy is nice but cannot really be homebuilt plus its an F11

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Well, there is always something wrong with everything, isn't it ?


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You know what I quit.

I think that I'm truly not the right person to lead this public F12 project.

I'll just continue with my own design in my own pace, everyone who wants to be part of that can e-mail me personally.

For the remainder I wish you all the best of luck and I truly hope you'll succeed in gettting the "true" F12 of the ground.

Wouter

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I only wanted it to perform sufficiently well

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Me too that is why I think a 12ft long F12 will perform sufficiently well for the needs of children and there is no need to have more perfromance, if I wanted more performance I would have gone for an F14. That is the point I was trying to make.

Shame you are quiting

Gareth

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The Catsy is nice but cannot really be homebuilt plus its an F11

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Aha! I get it now, if a boat, such as the Catsy, is 10'-2" long it must be an F11. Why is the F16, at 16'-5", not a F17?

Wouter,
You did not explain why you don't think it makes sense to have two divisions of Formula 12, low-performance and high-performance.

You could concentrate on the high-performance aspect, like your F12 (which might become F12X), and somebody else could concentrate on the low-performance boats for the younger kids.

Your talents are much better suited to the high-performance end of the picture.

I should add, too, that it appears there are lots of small boats available in Europe, and in Australia. But there is really nothing available in the United States except for the Bravo, which I definitely don't consider to be a good boat for children.

Why…Why…Why…would you want to design and build a hull design that is inferior if it costs you nothing more in money, time, or weight to have a superior product?

If someone offered you a compact car that outperformed a sub-compact car on every level…got better fuel economy, had a more desirable body design, had more interior room, more carrying capacity all for the exact same price…which would you choose?

If I offered to build you a house that was 3,911 square feet instead of 3,657 square feet for exactly the same price and it didn’t cost anymore in utilities, taxes or insurance to own this bigger home which would you choose?

There is zero logic to the argument of having a poorly performing 12'-0" hull design when you can have a superior one at 12'-10" that costs nothing more, is not any harder to build, will perform better, will allow a greater range of use because of increased weight bearing capacity.

Darryl’s F14 is like a Ferrari in comparison to what we are talking about here… and about three times as expensive as the proposed F12 budget. We are talking about the difference between caviar and canned tuna fish.

I say again…make the hull as performance oriented as possible within the restrictions of building materials, and simple construction methods… achieve all your performance restrictions with the rig…

“You know what I quit.” Wouter just think if you would have said that a few years back…the F16 class as we know it today might not exist…

Regards,
Bob

Because I do see the benefit of two setups, Mary.

Remember the two rigs ? One of 7.00 sq. mtr. and the other of 9.00 sq. mtr. using the same basic platform ?

I just don't see the benefit of having two size of platform, especially if they are only 10 inches different in length which in turn is only done because the name initially was F12.

Forgive me but I tiring of going in circles.

Wouter

Wouter,
Why would you quit on your project, which sounds like a great boat that can handle everyone from pre-teens to adults?

But you said yourself that it was not designed with the younger children in mind -- like ages 7-8 to 11-12. That group could not care less what the boat looks like or how fast it is. They just want to go out on the water and have fun.

Your boat appeals to a slightly older, more sophisticated group. Like post-puberty?

This youth situation is very complicated because there are so many variations in the development of children. It's not a matter of one boat fits all in that critical period between 8 and 14.

I don't see any reason for not going forward with your boat design for its targeted group.

For my own young grandchildren, I would like something much slower and more "primitive." A miniature version of a Wharram design would be perfect.
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Mary A. Wells
Catamaran Sailor Magazine