Mary, while getting kids started when they are young is important, I believe the formative years of sailing begins when parents begin to let their kids enjoy sailing on their own and unsupervised, which is probably somewhere around 12-13. My fondest memories of sailing in my youth were when I sailed out by the harbor entrance and routinely capsized our Flying Junior jumping and riding waves. That is where my real love of sailing began. Even then, I wanted more speed and I recall asking my dad if we could build a sailing proa (remember Crossbow?) which sounded thrilling. It would have been a thrill to have built a cat like this F12 with my dad.

I must confess, I like what Wouter is working on, whatever it’s called. It may be a little on the expensive side, but if its construction is truly short & simple, it may be well worth it.

This may be a crazy idea, but can we have two classes – a F11 & F12?

Wouter, not that I’m asking you to design it, but would it be possible to build an 11 foot cat that would meet the objectives Mary laid out – or is 11 feet just too short? If it was possible, the F11 could address the younger kids at a low cost & lower performance, and the F12 would address the teenage market - which I believe is important.

Bill Nieuwkerk

Bill,
Yes, actually, I would prefer 11 feet or even 10 feet -- the smaller the better (except for the problem with weight-carrying ability) -- because my belief is exactly the opposite of yours. The formative years start MUCH younger. By the time they are 12 or 13, they have other interests and activities, and you have lost them.

Kids need a boat they can singlehand when they are 7 or 8. That is why I have always said they should be started out in the Opti -- besides the fact that it is easier to learn on a monohull, it is very empowering for a young child to be the master of his or her own vessel. So let her take a few lessons on an Opti at the local sailing school, and then put her on the little cat

When they get into pre-teen and teen years is when they want to sail with friends, so it is important that they already be seasoned sailors by the time they get to that point.

P.S.
I was looking again at the pictures of the Arafura Cadet, which is only 11 feet, and that seems like it would work for all the age ranges.

I really agree with Mary, hook them while they are young and you keep them for life, as certain industries have proved. I also envision a 12 footer as a boat for the youngsters, as an alternative to the Optimist. I dont agree at all with the notion that youngsters should start out in the Optimist. Why send them trough such an experience? I dont understand why it is "easier to learn on a monohull"?

When they grow larger, the F-16 could be the next logical step (?).

I also agree with Mary and Rolf, there are allready a bunch of suitable cats for teenagers, but not for youngsters. So why bother with yet another one.

I think the 12ft F12 is a great idea for my 3 chidren age 5-10 (I'll leave the 7 month out of this discssion). They have an Oppie but I feel there are many advantages in a cat not least the greater stability.

I thought this is where the dscussion started and it then drifted toward a higher performance cats that could also be sailed by a lightweight adult. For which I see no need.

Gareth

Ok, that leaves two questions on the difference between 12'10" and 12'.
What will the weight difference of the complete package be (and what weight will mum have to lift on to the roof of the car) and what will optimum crew weight for the two different lengths be?

I just re-read the post about crew weights yesterday, and he said for the smaller boat the crew weight would range from 31 to 50 kg, with 43 kg being optimal.

For the bigger boat, crew weight range is 49-72 kg, with 63 kg being optimal.

Keep in mind that only applies to his particular design and is not necessarily true of other designs. It sounds like the Australian boats carry a lot more weight than that.

0.6kg per hull.. Well if that is the case the weight difference is no big issue. How about minimum crew weight to handle the boat? What would the difference between the two "proposals" be there?