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Re: distance racing [Re: drbinkle] #107744
05/21/07 10:20 AM
05/21/07 10:20 AM

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Wouter/Gang:

Well I tried the chute this weekend again on the Mystere 4.3 and I am ready for buoy race in two weeks. Can't wait to try a distance race on it. Chute REALLY makes this little boat move.

Doug

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Re: distance racing [Re: ] #107745
05/21/07 10:46 AM
05/21/07 10:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Hi Doug -

I've done several distance races on the 4.3. Just remember that you have to keep that little 'chute working - sail it higher than you think you need to and your speed will be much greater. In lighter air, keeping the boat moving is more important than always pointing in exactly the right direction. Be willing to abandon a preferred heading in favor of elusive zephyrs. You can slacken the spin halyard to carry it higher - in this manner, I have been able to carry the 'chute in jib-reach conditions, which is a dramatic advantage. Fly the 'chute until you simply can't anymore.

In buoy racing, remember to position yourself right over that skeg when trapping. Keep footing for boatspeed and let the apparent help compensate for the absence of dagger boards. Mast rake! Put the CE of the mainsail right back there with your body weight for synergistic advantage.

Clean snuffs at the bottom of the course before you get there so you can control your steering better as you round. The mast is very heavy and stiff - you will be fine sheeting and travelling the main way out as you get ready to snuff to keep speed up into the rounding. I did it like this:

Sheet out/travel out main, snuff 'chute, trim jib for upwind, travel up main as you start to round, sheet in as you round (enter wide, exit close a la Rick White), trap on upwind heading, polish main trim.

Great little boat. Have fun. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: distance racing [Re: John Williams] #107746
05/21/07 12:52 PM
05/21/07 12:52 PM
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John,did the fact that your level of security rose when on the M4.3 put you on your Capricorn,I would think that is a big jump. Did you also say you thought you were to light for an I20.I noticed alot of smaller guys able to handle the boats in the Tybee. As well as the N6.0's on our beach for that matter makes me think optimum sailor wieght on average is about 155-165 in all conditions on anything? sorry to Hijack the plane..

Re: distance racing [Re: BobG] #107747
05/21/07 04:47 PM
05/21/07 04:47 PM
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Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
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Another thing that is wrong with sailing a smaller boat in an open distance race is the handicap system. That's why we like to watch distance races like the Tybee 500. Most of the boats are the same. It's all about the sailors.

Whereas, in our local RTI, you can race anything from a Mystere 4.3 to an RC27. Let's say the Mystere guy wins on handicap. Nice. Congrats! But the problem is everyone has already finished the race, party'd hard , had dinner, and hit the sack!! Poor ole Mystere guy is like what the F%$K! I just kicked all your butts, and you don't even know it. The other guys are like ...yeah, your handicap has got to be wrong!!

I'm thinking I would enjoy sailing RTI over there in Ft. Walton Beach on a Super Cat 22. Now that would be a good boat for a race like that. Or make everyone sail a Hobie 16 in a separate division from the handicappers. Now that would be a race! A little RTI Ironman...................

Tom

Anybody got a SuperCat 22 for charter around the time of RTI in Ft. Walton.... (-:

Re: distance racing [Re: BobG] #107748
05/21/07 06:28 PM
05/21/07 06:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Hi Bob -

Long story somewhat short(ish); The Mystere folks were unable to fill a new boat order for me - I'd sold mine in anticipation of having a new one in time for the Nationals. With changes at the factory in production priority, I cancelled my order after waiting several months. In the mean time, I was continuing to crew for anyone who would have me - I was having the most fun at F18 events since all my Hobie and Nacra friends were there at the same time. Decided to get into the F18 fleet as an owner and ordered an Infusion. The roll-out in the US was delayed a bit, and it happened that there were plans to bring in some Capricorn F18s - the money was burning a hole in my pocket, I'd been boatless for a year, and the Infusion delivery dates were uncertain even for the rockstars at the time. I took a chance and I'm glad I did - fun class to sail in.

I think I'm a little light for the N20, but the F18 gives me lots of flexibility - two sail plans to accomodate teams from 250-pounds on up. I like sailing the smaller sails and have enjoyed greater success while sailing lighter. The big sails let me still ask the bigger guys along. Fits my preference for two-up, spinnaker buoy racing perfectly. At the same time, while a 400-pound boat with the small sail plan is not the best tool in the box for distance racing (the topic of this thread), you can still have a fun time in a mixed fleet (Mug Race) or at a F18-dominated event like the Great Texas.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: distance racing [Re: John Williams] #107749
05/21/07 07:14 PM
05/21/07 07:14 PM

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John:

I don't plan yo do long distance races on the 4.3. I am just using the 4.3 as a training platform to learn spin on before I get the Blade and to turn over to Ashleigh to sail and race with her friends.

Re: distance racing [Re: ] #107750
05/21/07 08:03 PM
05/21/07 08:03 PM

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John:

How important are telltales on the spin? I have three sets. Middle of top panels, middle of sail and bottom third of sail. Tried to keep leewards flowing back and dancing a little.

Doug

Re: distance racing [Re: ] #107751
05/21/07 08:18 PM
05/21/07 08:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Hi Doug -

I might get roasted for this, but I don't use tell-tales on the spin. The two spins that came with the Capricorn both have them, but I never look at them when I'm crewing. I don't remember if there were tells on my 4.3 spin - 'cause I never looked. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Jamie Diamond has that spinnaker now - maybe he'll post and remind me.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: distance racing [Re: ] #107752
05/21/07 08:50 PM
05/21/07 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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feel the force Luke. Rip the tell-tales off. I think they're worthless and distracting on a spin.

Instead, just get that leading edge lightly popping every 5 or 10 seconds and your golden.


Jake Kohl
Re: distance racing [Re: John Williams] #107753
05/21/07 09:34 PM
05/21/07 09:34 PM
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Posts: 576
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thanx for your reply JW. As far as distance racing do you think that the F18 has been maxed out in performance in this country compared to the rest of the world. I would have thought it would have been the boat to beat on the jupiter leg of the Tybee this year. The Tybee organizers are doing the right thing by holding fast to the I20 as its premier boat. There are a lot of designs out there that can obtain the speed of the I20 but it appears to be easier to create speed in all directions to the wind than other designs even for the relatively less experienced teams.There is nothing wrong with the I20 as the boat of the future and riegn in these long distance events like the Tornado in the olympics. just blabbering on.... Bob

Re: distance racing [Re: ] #107754
05/21/07 09:39 PM
05/21/07 09:39 PM
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BobG Offline
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It must make the boat move ,just look at the size of the snuffer bag,you dont need a spi, is that normal ?

Re: distance racing [Re: BobG] #107755
05/22/07 04:39 AM
05/22/07 04:39 AM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Put Mischa on a F18 during the Tybee with all others on I-20's and see what happens then. I predict he will still come out on top.

Point in case. Several Round Texel races over the past years. The only boats to beat the F18's on elapsed are pretty much custom Eagle 20's and Tornado's.

Wouter.


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: distance racing [Re: BobG] #107756
05/22/07 08:05 AM
05/22/07 08:05 AM

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Quote
It must make the boat move ,just look at the size of the snuffer bag,you dont need a spi, is that normal ?


BobG:

Believe me. the spin may be small, BUT it make that boat MOVE when there is enough wind,

Doug

Re: distance racing [Re: Wouter] #107757
05/22/07 09:24 AM
05/22/07 09:24 AM
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League City, TX
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Quote


Put Mischa on a F18 during the Tybee with all others on I-20's and see what happens then. I predict he will still come out on top.

Point in case. Several Round Texel races over the past years. The only boats to beat the F18's on elapsed are pretty much custom Eagle 20's and Tornado's.

Wouter.


There was not enough wind on this years Tybee (on average) for the F18 to overcome the advantage of a taller mast and more sail area of the I-20. When the wind increased or it was close hauled with the spinnaker the F18 did quite nicely, but a few hours of light wind each day was enough to unravel any gains we made.

What was the wind speed at the recent Texel Island races?

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: distance racing [Re: flumpmaster] #107758
05/22/07 09:29 AM
05/22/07 09:29 AM
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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you guys were definitely smoking hot on a tight spin reach.


Jake Kohl
Re: distance racing [Re: flumpmaster] #107759
05/22/07 10:04 AM
05/22/07 10:04 AM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Quote

What was the wind speed at the recent Texel Island races?



Texel typically has a good amount of wind, so the round texel race is often sailing in 15+ knots all the way.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: distance racing [Re: ] #107760
05/22/07 07:56 PM
05/22/07 07:56 PM
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sorry Doug, what I meant is it looks like a big snuffer bag for the size of the boat must be a big spin for the size also.

Re: distance racing [Re: BobG] #107761
05/22/07 08:20 PM
05/22/07 08:20 PM

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Just a stock setup. Way the boat was made. I bought it to learn spinnaker on and price was good. $2700.

Doug

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