Event website :

http://www.f16worlds.zandvoortonline.com

No official press releases have been made, so you guys just have to make due with the "rumour" cirquit report by dear old Wouter.

Only 5 weeks and 2 days to go till the first day of this event !

We are looking at a good turn-out. In the past I named 15 boats or more a succesful turn-out and my personal accounting puts us beyond that now. By how far I dare not say, but I'm beating the bushes to get over 20.

So anyone still on the fence about this event should give it another long thought and then decide to come over !

The guys and gals at the club here are looking forward to it and several have entlisted themselves to help out doing bar duty etc. This project is really looking alive. Hans has arranged an interesting program and we are all looking forward to a week of sailing and socializing.

Tim, any change of you getting a flight to here that week and dropping in ?

We are also hoping that a large portion of the F16 fleet will stay at Zandvoort for saterday 18 augustus, the day of the long distance REM-NAM race. The Gods have smiled on us this year and a scheduling error has placed the Dutch F18 nationals at the same weekend as the REM-NAM race. The REM-NAM race is one of the Dutch events that has exclusive rights to their weekend and no other major racing events are allowed to be programmed simultaniously. This year a F*@#-up determined otherwise.

So why is this good for us, you may ask. Well, if ever you are going to win a 80 boat distance race then this years REM-NAM race is it ! All the professional sailors like Mischa Heemskerk will be away at the Dutch F18 nationals. So this years REM-NAM race is wide open for us weekend warriors ! And they all KNOW it ! So this is going to be a highly contested race.

If we as the F16 class were to get our whole World Cup fleet or even the best 10 boats on the line, then who will have good chances of bringing home the bacon ?

So all you F16 sailors out there, arrange your tickets, come on over and have a piece of the action !

C Ya There !

Wouter

looks like a good event, my best wishes for it to be a success.
couple of questions for you
would a spitfire be able to enter?
as a one design what would happen measurement wise?
as I have no measurement certificate and the spitfire would not strictly comply I guess?
but then it is grand-fathered into the class??

cheers gary

Gary,

Are you mr Sproat by any chance ?

Let me start by underlining that I'm no longer a Formula 16 class official and that all my following statements are to be regarded as those of a private sailor. In some instances my comments clearify some of the F16 class rules and the thinking that was behind them when they were created. Comments of the latter kind may only be taken as historical notes and not as my official opinion as the founder and former chairman of the class. The reason for this stance is that I believe the current F16 Governing Council are the undisputed highest F16 authority at this time and I try to not interfere with their policy, whatever that may be. Besides I will only give my official opinion when officially requested to do so.

Now with this disclaimer I can down to answering on your questions to the best I can.



That is unknown at this time. See my explanation of the grandfather rules later. An official request needs to be made and then F16 chairman together with the GC (governing council) need to decide on this. Normally the organising committee of the event has a strong say in this matter, but at this time the organising committee is also the F16 chairman and the GC so ...

The F16 rules do not forbid the inclusion of the Spitfire per se.





I don't think the F16 class recognizes One-Design-ness is any way; neither positively or negatively. Pretty much as long as your boat is measured and measures in then it is F16 compliant and may race. If it is measured and found to be non compliant then the GC/event organisor may decide to let you compete anyway, but they may also decide not too. They may even decide to let you race under certain conditions.

The only garantee that the F16 class rules provide is that all measured and compliant boats can race race, barring any pending disciplinary actions against the crews themselves.




A measurement form may be wavered by the GC, as it may do with F16 boats, but this allowance is really only intended for small events. The event we are talking about here is really a World Championship and all F16 crews are required to show a measurement form. I see no reason why the GC/organising committee would make an exception for you here. I've gotten mine 2 months ago and yes I paid for it.

Personally I don't know whether the Spitfire will not measured in as an F16. Looking at the builder specified specs; it is pretty much compliant in ever respect except the sail area's. But it wouldn't be the first time that real life measurements were to be smaller then specified by the builder.

My own spinnaker is supposed to be 17.5 sq.mtr. but is really 17.01 sq .mtr after measuring. And I had sailed with it for 3 years before measuring. If something like that is also the case with your spitfire spi then it will be F16 compliant. I've seen to spi measurements of some other spi boats and it is not rare to find spi's to be smaller then specified.

This pretty much only leaves the mainsail and jib, but these are not that much larger then the F16 max allowed sizes.

But lets assume your sails are indeed non-compliant, what then do the grandfather rules say ;





asds

Rule 5.1.1. explicitely states that the dispensations are "limited in duration" and "reviewed yearly", also dispensated boats only become part of the "OPEN F16 class".

Rule 6.1.4. states that dispensated boats are allowed into declared "OPEN formula 16" events.


When I was a chairman I used to dispensate (unrequested) the Spitfires yearly for the "Open F16 events" like the DCC in 2004. I also actively invited them these events.

However I've been replaced by the GC two seasons ago and they are free to persue a different policy. It is however safe to say that they have not dispensated the Spitfires because no official requests have been received. This is not to say that the Spitfire can't still be dispensated. But I can tell you that decisions made in the past are no garantee for the present of future.

Also the F16 World Cup has not been declared as an "OPEN F16 event". Again, this does not mean that it can't still be made "open".

As things stand now, no dispensated boats may enter the World Cup and the Spitfire is not dispensated at this time. Only an official request may change this.

This request must be directed to the GC and or the F16 chairman. At this time they have full freedom to decide either way OR to propose a compromise if they so desire. They are however required to get back at you in a timely manner.

My advice would be to make such an official request.


My personal stance in the past was that "the more boats on the water; the more fun for everybody"

I also regarded the Spitfire as extremely close to the F16 in behaviour and speed; I think that when racing these boats against one another the best crew will be victorious irrespectibally of the boat sailed. As such if should not go against the main criterium of the F16 class; "fair and level racing between boats of different make".

I was never scared of the very skilled Spitfire crews as I believe the F16 concept is strong enough to survive every setback that can be imagined. I also believe that fragmentation of the cat sailing scene should be actively combatted, for the good of us all. That is also why I will race F18's on a first-in-wins basis. I believe that if a Spitfire crew beats all F16's in the fleet then that is because that Spitfire crew was just the best crew of them all and not because the Spitfire design has some special magic enclosed in it. For that the boats are far to similar. Although I'm also sure that such a win would be milked promotionally. But that still wouldn't matter as F16 as a class is too much established world wide and too strong to be taken down by such an occurance. And also this knife cuts both ways; it may also be a F16 crew that ignites the rockets and creams everybody else.

I do feel however that in the past the Spitfire crews would have creamed us. It is commonly known that the Spitfire crews are excellent sailors and very skilled at making their craft go very fast.

But I also feel that this time the F16 sailors have a few hot shots of their own and I personally would really like to see the Spitfire and F16 crews go head to head. Will be great fun to witness, I'm sure.

And I feel that some cooperation between our two classes will benefit everybody. As all F16 builders will be at this event it may also be the right time to explore any future opportunities. I know some builders will be interested in such developments.

Afterall this cat sailing scene is too small and expensive to fight among ourselves. It will be better to work out a mutual beneficial co-existance or even some cooperation. In the end we will all be better off, especially the boat owners !

And I would love to see you guys overhere having fun in the racing and socializing.

But again, these are my personal opinions and I will support whatever the GC decides.

Wouter

Now thats one sexay flier. Wait till you see the Ts!

Wouter, August is going to be a very busy month for me and the family. I've got to get two kids moved in to different colleges, but I will look at it when I get my Aug. schedule done and see if there is any way I can make it. You know I would love to visit all you guys again!

My Blade sits ready and waiting for the thunderstorms to stop, in my back yard, mast up, ready to go. Just need some wind without lightning!

Tim, new hull all set and ready to go?
Sweet!
This Fl in the summer time gets dicey deciding when to sail- you can go in the Am before the thunderstorms and risk no wind or you can go in the afternoon and get hit by lightning. there may be a 30min period in there with wind but no lightning.

Wouter thanks for your prompt and comprehensive reply!
To answer your question, no i am not 'Sproaty' but one of the sailors snapping at his transoms but not quite catching him!
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I was considering coming over and 'having a go' but dont worry I(we) were not looking to spoil the party and would not have won i'm sure.
The 'my boats better than your boat' thing mildy amuses me people dont change boat from what they read on forums do they! and I guess like you I just like to go sailing and see as many people on the water as possible <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Another year I will get sorted earlier (never enough time)and try to compete as I think it would be a good race between the different designs.

cheers
Gary

Fair winds to you Gary !

C Ya later.

Wouter

Worrying website:
http://www.nighttours.nl/zandvoort/
this forum is cracking up!! posts aren't working and now look what's happening!!

Could someone from the Governing Council or perhaps Wouter confirm what the arrangements are for Pre- Entry in regards to racing One or Two up. I ask this question as I think there should be a cut off period well before the commencement of the event preventing crews from changing under normal circumstances. Therefore if you enter as a single hander you remain as a single hander no mater how windy it could get and vice versa. If such controls aren't put into place early enough it could lead to some bad feelings during the Event.
Also, would it be possible to start publishing the list of entries to make the above public knowledge.
See you soon
Mark

Mark, I'd have thought that it would be up to the individual owner to leave this decision right up until the first race. Once a boat is raced in a series as uni or sloop then it has to compete for the rest of the series in than format. So, in the case of the GC, I'm not aware of any special circumstance that requires entrants to declare in advance which rig they will be sailing? At the time of entry, I guess, most people will indicate their format but really it's not until the series starts that their rig choice is 'set in stone' as it were.

Cheers John, I take it you're entering and this coincides with the second part of my question. Will the current list of entrants be available for public viewing at any point prior to registration?

I'm entering Mark, but I don't know that I'm fit enough to sail!!! I'm going into hospital tomorrow to have my right medial knee cartilage removed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. That gives me just 3 and a bit weeks to get fit enough and so it's marginal. If I don't sail then Paul will be sailing my boat.

As to publishing a list of entrants, that's one for the Zandvoort club.....

Hi All,

The PRELIMINARY entry list is added to the official Global Challenge website.
http://www.f16worlds.zandvoortonline.com/
Please keep an eye on the site because the organisation will add some info very soon about the issue when you are arriving at the event site. This is important for all competitors.

Regards,
Hans Klok

G. Ruesink will be sailing with K. Weeda.

And what is with the 2 unnamend Stealths from the UK ?

I know Greg told some of us that he will be over with 3 Vipers and I hope he is succesful at that. But an evaluation of the chances predicts ... .... Afterall, we are down to three weeks till the start of the event.

The second Aussie Blade fell through too. To bad I would have loved to see Gary Maskiel give us a good beating on the course. So far he is the only one of us to have finished in front of Greg Goodall. We sure could have used his skills in this event.

To bad we had to loose our Norwegian and Finnish entries as well. That would have put us at 20 boats and provide us with nice portfolio of participating nations.

And that leaves me as the only homebuild entry ! I'm not sure if I can carry such a responsibility on my own !

Also a small pitty to see that none of the Swiss and German F16's/Taipans could be attracted to this event. Maybe John can still be persuaded to drive over from Switzerland ? And bring a few fellow Swiss Taipan sailors ?


Anyway, I'll be seeing everybody in 3 weeks !

Wouter

Hi All,

On the eventwebsite are some important phone numbers added for people who are arriving at the event site before the 10th of August. Please have a look at this and make a notice in your notebook.

Regards,
Hans Klok

Hi,

Does anyone have an idea when the first start will be held every day? (if weather conditions are ok).

Regards,
Gill

Not before I've sobered up I would imagine. I've heard that the local Hieneken is something a bit special and should be treated with respect (I must remember to pack the Anadin)
On a slightly more serious note I take it that there wont be a medal race as this topic was mentioned in an earlier post and to date there has been no news from the GC.
Medal Races have been used for both Nations Cup's to date 2006/7 and I highly recommend them for the benefit it provides to all the competitors.

I'm told they will be long races, 60 to 75 minutes. Possibly running out to 90 minutes is we make a few false starts.

On the days we have 3 races it was suggested to run 2 in the late morning, early afternoon and then get back for a lunch break and have the 3rd later in the afternoon. I'm sute the lunch break will take a long time as well. Afterall the other halve of the event is having fun and socializing and how better then to do that over food !

My guess is therefor that the races start at no later then 11:00 in the morning, probably a little earlier ?

Wouter