This may be a stupid question, but in my search for a cat I have noticed many of the Hobies have the trampoline mounted on posts which raises the tramp above the hulls. I haven't really noticed this on other cats. Is there any particular reason for the difference? I am assuming this is only a design difference.

Sorry for the hokey question.

The Hobie 14 was designed as a way to get back to the waves after the wind picked up. It was Hobie, Wayne Shafer, and Phil Edwards that drew the design in the sand when they could not surf because the wind was to high. They thought that if they had a sailboat they could surf there would be opportunity to stay in the water all day. Hobie came back the next day and everyday after that with different hulls he would shape and glass the night before. The pylon idea was to be able to stay above the water so the tramp was mounted that way. The reason he shaped, I believe it was more than 20 but not more than 30 hulls, was to find a hull shape that would not need daggerboards. The 16 is just a two person version of the 14. There is way more to this story but I thought I would just summarize. I sailed with Wayne "Da Legend" Shafer for 3 1/2 fun years campaigning the 20s.

Later,
Dan

No pylons is :

- cheaper
- stiffer
- less damage/wear/leaking prone


Sitting or trapezing of the hulls instead of the trampoline bars is :

- more confortable
- much less painful when sailing long distances


Wouter

There are a number of advantages...

Trapezing from the raised rail(as on a 16) is easier than from the hull. Your feet are above the wave action that sweeps along the hull. Less getting your legs washed out from under you.

Trapezing from the rail is drier.

Carpet or neoprene on the rails gives better traction than most hulls. Better footing.

There is another large advantage to the raised trampoline frame that would only be noticed by those that sail both... In a cat with straight crossbars mounted directly to the hulls (not arched like the 17, 18 and Hobie 21) you will find that the boat is less comfortable to sail in rough conditions. Especially evident downwind. With the low crossbars, the wave action rides up under the trampoline and when it hits the rear bar, the boat decelerates suddenly and the rear is pitched upwards.

Thanks for info guys!

Have a nice day.

Humm,

I did sail all/both and :




This is far more a result of the rim on the hulls then off the raised tramp. Why do I know ? Because my Prindle had much the same feeling in this respect as the Hobie.



Again, hull rim !




After a little while you could always peel the neoprene of the Hobies with you butt. Carpet ? I'm not even commenting on that. Try self adhesive embossed anti-slip vinyl tape. Keeps working even after years of UV, is smooth so won't take the skin of your limbs, and your rubber footies will stick like glue to it even when awash with water.





But let me suffice by pointing out that even Hobie has discontinued their last curved beam catamaran several years ago.

If you place a modern straight beam cat design next to a Hobie 17 or Hobie 18 you'll find that the less tall hulls of the latter boats corrects out for any curvature in the beams. Also the beams on a Prindle (straight even as far back as in 1972) are at the same height as the Hobie 16; reason ? The prindle 16 hulls are significantly taller then the Hobie.

Curved beams and raised trampolines are a thing of the past.

There are no advantages that can't also be had with straight beams.

Wouter

I wouldn't say that. The curved beams are just more difficult to build and cause the builder to have a left and right deck. More expensive.

They have definite advantages, but, as you said... may be a thing of the past, but due to cost issues, not advantage issues.

Matt- Do you ever pull out all of your hair?

I have sailed both styles since the mid 70's, I still think attaching the beams to the hulls is the best way. I have seen many a Hobie 16 with the pylons down in the hulls, and in some cases there where as much as 2-3 inches difference in the distance between the corner castings and the hulls There are far many more moving parts when you place the tramp on the raised platform. 4 corner castings, 2 side rails, 4 pylons, mostly held together with rivets. When I lift even the best maintained Hobie 16 from 1 hull there is a few inches of movement before the other hull starts to raise, and in some cases many inches. If I lift 1 hull of a P-16, both hulls start to raise at the same time. Just my opinion

What kind of beams do these brand new (2005 Nationals) factory supplied Hobie 16's have?


Still the most popular catamaran in the USA year after year based on Nationals attendance.

This has always been clear to me and I am astonished race cats do not lift the tramp to stop the drag of beams in waves.

I want to ask about the mast rake on 16s also.
After viewing the early photos to be fopund it would seem this has become for more pronunced.
I see that it would herlp in not stuffing bows and in going up wind and dealing with the large sail plan.
Why are other race cats not using this understanding more?

Um, no. You haven't seen a well maintained Hobie 16. Go to any high-level event and those boats are stiff and solid.

Oh, and Wouter - the last Hobie with curved crossbars to be discontinued was the H-17 - and that was only 6 months ago. However, as Pat pointed out, the 16 is still made with a curved front crossbar.

There is a big difference in the rigidity of the boat between rigged and not rigged as well. That is something that should be taken into consideration.

Indeed Pat,

You got me on this one !

How could I forget about the curved beams on the Hobie 16 ?!

Last of its kind though.

Nevertheless, point for you.

Wouter

Modern designs with straight beams flex only 15-20 mm when layed up on their sterns and lifted by one bow. For us American friends this is 3/5th - 4/5th of an inch (or whatever other fractions you use !). i.e. without the rig on it.

There is no way you can get down to that with a raised trampoline on pilons. Your best bed would be to weld (all) the connections together and hope the beams are stiff enough themselves.

I do know that stiff platforms ride the waves noticeably better. I had an old Prindle 16 that became soft in the beam/hull connection. At one time I decided to stiffen these up. Once again I could fix the beams tightly to the hulls. The next day I went out it felt like the boat was reborn. It felt young again, agile, it glided the waves with ease. With gusts it picked up power more quickly. I was really suprised to find how much effect bringing back platform stiffness had and it hadn't been that soft to begin with.

Wouter

Over at SA they were talking about how you won Texel on that P16. Can you share some more tips on how you made that boat so fast?

Ohh that is very easy. I just did everything the same as the last Hobie 16 that won line-honours at Texel.

Wouter

I'm glad to know that annoying hull lip has a positive effect in making the ride dryer! I'd never thought of that,but just last week the girls were talking about enjoying crewing on H16s more than on Nacras, because of the dryer ride. I've certainly noticed the H20 and Inter/Nacra17 are much wetter rides than the older Hobies. The newer designs are a lot easier on the feet though! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />