Well, the F18 weight equalizing system may actuall work if it ruled on different mainsails in stead of different jibs and spinnaker area's. The jib is pretty negligiable in the way of heeling moments and yes in that way you have a point Stewart. Going from a 4.15 sq. mtr. jib to a 3.45 sq. mtr. jib doesn't do much at all. It is the same difference as going from a 150 kg double trapping to a 145.3 kg crew double trapping. Who here believes that 4.7 kg difference in crew weight make a significantly difference ?

With respect to the spinnaker; luff length is far more dominant in determining how much power the spi develops then its total area. In the F18 rules both the large and small spis have the same luff lengths. Also the are difference between 21 and 19 sq. mtr is surprisingly small. Only 10 % difference. Basically you take off 10 inches of the leech and you are there. The change in aspect ratio will then only be going from 3.44 to 3.80. So the small spi will have a higher aspect ratio, something that is actually beneficial. Basically is small area will reduce the power a little bit but its higher aspect ratio will go some way in correcting for this by having better efficiency. Both are still small differences in relation to the impact a different luff length can make, but even then these two differences are acting in opposite directions making the net difference smaller still.

With regard to adding lead, that is probably the most influencial equalizer in the system. This seems to be confirmed by real life as all crews try to make the minimal weight where you can just sail with the big rig and added weight. Losing the weight and going for the small sails is not perferred by the racing crews as they almost all feel that the "big rig+weight" is the more performant option.

Wouter

Dave,

There has been a lot of discussion on weight, but to say a proven weight system like on the F18 is a huge leap from logic. The most important issue with weight on a cat (especially a light weight platform like the F16) is not how much but where and when you place that weight. To strap on a bunch of lead to a boat is doing nothing more than a providing an inept sense of equality, it is no more fair than no weight correction. To race on an F18 with my wife we would have to run small sail plan and still strap on a bunch of weight to a boat that already weights 400 lbs. This is stupid and the primary reason we never seriously considered the option of buying an F18.

When I sail with Gina we are 265 on a good day. I have raced with some friends and my brother-in-law with crew weight up to about 340. The boat obviously does not feel the same, but finish wise we came in right in the same relative position against those we normaly race with, so there was no difference in ultimate boat performance over that range of crew weight.

With the spin and the adjustment in sail trim available on the new boats/sails, it is how you sail. On a H16 I would agree weight is a pretty large factor with 2 equally skilled skippers, but not on a new spin boat. As a light weight, I would say we are seriously disadvantaged in winds over 15, in the medium stuff there is not much difference, and less than 5 is anyones game anyway depending on your luck that day.

The F16 is definitely not everything to everyone (No matter what Wouter says) It is ultimately only 16 ft long, so there are some disadvantages there in certain conditions, but the design has proven to outperform the perceptions that have traditionaly been associated with 16' platforms. I love sailing mine. Ask those guys out there who have one or those that have been on them. We got generaly very good feed back from the Alter Cup, and that primarily was that people were supprised at how well a 16 did perform in wind and with reasonably large crew weights.

The weight of the platform really make a difference in how the boat feels sailing on the water (and moving on shore). The US number system in particualar will always be wrong for all boats sometimes so the fact you can be able to go and race even or close with a variety on other designs is a nice feature. Beacause of these things and the versatilty of the 1/2 up, the F16 class has been steadily growing not only in the US but world wide.

Matt

The F16 is really a different animal. You won't believe unless you try it.

Hook a ride on one, then you'll believe.

I don't think the A cats have a min. crew weight, do they? And Tornados? Do they? It's an outdated rule left over from the Hobie 16 fleets. As Matt says, with today's new, light, spinaker boats, weight is not nearly as important as abiltiy. There is no -one- perfect boat.

Get what fits your style of racing and then go race it. Corrector weights are not going to change a thing when it comes to your results. There are too many variables in the wind/waves/ability, etc.

If you are 175 and have some spinnaker experience, you will do fine on a F16 sailing Uni. Your wife will be fine as well, but tell your large crew to get his own F16 and the two of you can race against each other Uni. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just to add my comment....:

1 The performance of a lightweight crew with smaller sailplan will differ also from normal crew-weight with normal sailplan.
2 Heavier crew trapping in heavy weather with the kite up will have more momentum and have a better boatspeed when hitting the waves.
3 skills are the most important thing. Not a newer set of sails or weight (as long as your not olympic -> if that will be possible in the future...).

Regards,
Gill