Simple port and stbd, I was on stbd sailing down wind PORT boat is trying to claim they did not have enough time to avoid me (so I went behind them) I was on Stb gybe for at least 100m before we got close, they had seen me and they had at least 30 seconds, they claim that they were running DDW (it was a monohull) and did not have steerage way to take action - I dispute this, they were moving!

So how long is Sufficient time to take action? It was obvious we were on a converging course, It was light but constant wind and so I was on a constant heading. They could have gybed and headed up without dropping the kite as it was light wind.

I've had a quick look in the case book, but cannot find one that defines "reasonable time".

Can anyone help?

Windspeed was maybe 5kts and no tide.

Few things set me off so badly. There is nothing legal you can do. Outside the law. . .different story.

Sounds like BS but my approach is to assume in a mixed fleet that the monohullers will go into a "deer in the headlights" posture in a crossing situation. Best to wave them across and smile. You never know, they might remember and tell their buddies what great sports multihull sailors are.

I suspect Acat230 is right ... they're probably not used to the speed we carry and thought you'd pass in front of them...until it was too late and obvious now a collision might occur.


Revision History: corrected name of Acat230

This situation happens a lot at our Yacht Club races. I think of monohulls as obstructions and sail with them as though they were small islands. While we are all on the same course they each seem to be moving about as fast as one.

Dan <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

This summer I did some racing with some of the local mono's. Most of the time I had enough distance I didnt' have to worry about them, but usually i just gave them right of way.

The real question was how much time is enough to begin taking action? I personally feel that if the other team takes longer than 3-5 seconds after eye contact to begin taking action or signaling where they are going it is too late for them.

Racing with large monos, we go around them every time. I think situations involving cats or fast dinghys develop too fast for the average mono sailor and they get that "deer in the headlights" syndrome.

This was a Flying 15, so they should have been able to avoid quickly and easily.

I'll have a chat with the guy next weekend and explain the error of his ways.

Just really want to be abke to say "read case x,y,z" or look at the following website.

Doing some calculations from the info provided.

From the intial hail point the Flying 15 would have moved 7 boats lengths in the time it took the F16 to move 20 boat lengths. Plenty of time for the Flying Fifteen to take avoiding action. However the Flying Fifteen claims he didn't have steerage way so perhaps there was 5 knots of apparent wind on the cat and the FF wasn't moving enough to have the ability to keep clear?
It is to fine a point to argue without more info, GPS tracks are good for sorting these issues out.

Darryn
1782

This is the cue for the beer to come out your nose! No steerage? 5 Kt breeze with the kite up? BWAHHAAAHHAAAA!

From a technical perspective:

From my experience small monohulls are more maneuverable than cats, especially in light air. From playing before races, we found a J22 can gybe in about half to 3/4 the time it takes an A-Class in 5-7kts The Flying 15 looks like a keel version of the Flying Scot, so it should be at least as maneuverable. If its like a Flying Scot, and has a flat rudder and they would not have wanted to make a sudden maneuver because it's like dropping an anchor in light air.

Skippers:

From sailing 11 years on the Wed Nights with mostly monohulls, the good skippers pay attention and follow the rules. If they break a rule like you described, they will do their circles and buy you a drink after the race as an apology. The bad ones will run over you and claim and they did not see you. Nothing short of sinking them seems to make any difference. Novices are a separate class, completely unpredictable.



Carl

this guy is experienced - 4th and 6th in a fleet of 30 in the last 2 series.

I think he's trying to weedle out of a feck up on his part.

I've read that the "room and oppertunity" get-out only applies when course is changing, or when the ring-of-way boat gains the rights by tack/gybe.

Scooby, I don't think the argument of "give sufficient time to avoid" applies here. As I understand the situation you were not changing your course during the last 100 meters. At 5 knots Wind speed, say max 8 knots boat speed this is 25 seconds. They just had to give you room, period. The "give sufficient time" applies when you as a right of way boat begin to change your course when the boats are closing.

thats the nub of it if you didn't change your course and were closing on a collision course , he is Bound" by the rules to give you room to pass , if however although sailing on a reach your course direction was changing as you head up n down with the puffs and your last directional change caused you to head on a colliding course you would have to give him "enough time to take avoiding action " he does not have to anticipate that any course change you make (however small ) would lead to a collison untill such change is made (silly but its the rules )

I've found fastest way of getting round a course is to avoid situations like this if you can , confrontation is often slow even with rights and best kept for one design racing or when a slight slowdown will have no effect on you and the confrontation is tactically worth it .

As an ex mono one design racer its taken me decades to realise this in cat sailing , I now often let port tack monos, cats etc cross me happy in the knowledge I'm heading left because I want to and they are going the wrong way , last thing in that scenario is to force them to tack under you unless of course you want to send them back left and tack off yourself

when meeting boats offwind as above I even at times flogg spi for short while so I can maintain my course same ethos applies , if its a fellow cat your are converging with all they can do is gybe underneath or infront of you , neither good .

I'm just looking for chapter and verse; what got my goat was that there was no attempt to take any action, he just watched me sail towards him and he just let the situation develop.

I will be giving this guy a very wide berth in future!

Keel boats are pylons. Sail around them

LOL !

What I would do (and this borders on unsportsmanlike) is go around him and as I cross him say in a sympathetic voice how sorry I am that he doesn't know how to sail his boat in order to avoid right of way boats. Or offer to teach him how to tack that thing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Clayton

Tell him with a beer what he did wrong so he doesn't repeat this with others. And if he repeats it, go to the protest room.

From the case book, this is the decision after an appeal from P regarding a port/starboard incident.
" When one boat is required to keep clear of another, the keep clear boat must take action to avoid a collision EARLY enough to ensure the right-of-way boat has no need to take avoiding action, in the prevailing conditions, P failed to observe this principle and therefore did not keep clear."

I typed this in after reading it on P57 RYA 1986/1 of the case book. There are many similar incidents but this one states "early enough" and "prevailing conditions".

Heres the link
http://www.rya.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/148BE269-E138-41C3-9D3E-966C78687CFA/0/RYACaseBook20052008.pdf

The ISAF case book link isn't working to good but RYA version should be acceptable given the location of the incident.

Darryn
Mozzy
1782