From Scuttlebutt, not sure who will see the results, but it might be interesting:

OLYMPIC CLASSES SURVEY
On 9th November 2007, the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) will decide
which 10 Events will be contested in the Olympic Regatta in Weymouth 2012.
Currently there are 11 Classes, so this means one of them must go. Not only
that, but there are some new Events that are also vying for ISAF's attention.
Whether you're a full-time Olympic sailor, a weekend warrior, or even just an
armchair yachtsman, we want to know what YOU think. Which Events should be
represented in the Olympic Regatta 2012? Remember, there's not enough room
for everyone, so we also want to know which ones you would leave out. Take
the survey at
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=3bZCvXWEtM1%2f9u7NZZtgZg%3d%3d

Mike

Please be aware that this was set up By (I believe) Andy Rice and is in no way connected with, or supported by the ISAF or RYA. He is making some noise in the UK magazine Y+Y.

Please can you make plenty of comments regarding the fact the survey limits the results of the various polls and is generally based on the current classes.

I've done the survey and made comments to the fact that there is no ladies cat class, we are limited to choosing from the current classes etc.

What is his agenda?

The results will be here:
http://sailjuiceblog.com/

Didn't know who put it together (until I read it here), or what their agenda is. I just posted this here because I think it would be interesting to see the results, since the link was published in Scuttlebutt, which goes to the general sailing population (more or less).

If you participate in the survey, the results are emailed to you, IIRC. Better to participate than to wait to see the results and complain later.

I'm obviously making huge assumptions that the results will be posted without prejudice...

Mike

Anti Cat.

For example, he has posted up at totally un-substantiated figure of 40K GBP to START a Tornado campaign.

That sounds reasonable. I was told by someone on our tornado team that they spend $200k/year(cdn)

But is that anually and for all the regattas ?

THat's only 100K GBP; the 40K wast to START up, so second had boat, set of sails and a trailer I'd say 20K GBP was more sensible - look at the Tornado web sites, good boats for 12K GBP !

For some reason they never quote any budgets for say a 29-er or 49-er campaign. None of them realize that a 49-er is actually more expensive to purchase then a F18.

A 49-er costs 14.070 GBP which is 20.400 Euro's. Now F18's are expensive but you'll be order some very nice goodies with your boat if it goes past 18.500 Euro's.

It is always the same with monohulls sailors. They know almost nothing of non-monohull designs but they always know which is more expensive, or performing inferiourly and it is never the mono's.

Wouter

Done some T numbers vs laser for the Y+Y forum:

Rick - Tornado costs are 22K for a new boat (and you will probably need 3 over a 6 year campaign, and all 3 might not be new), how many new boats do the laser's have; I've been told between 2 and 3 new boats a year and many new rigs.

So if you bought 3 new boats over a campaign that's 66K (but I'd suggest you would not and might start with a second hand boat, so I'd say 55K)



Laser G-XD is £4500: http://www.lasersailing.com/disp/uk/laser/how-to-buy

So 3 boats a year for 6 years at 4500 = 3x6x4500 = 81K

or 2 boats a year for 6 years at 4500 = 2x6x4500 = 54K

So just the boats, T is between 55 and 66K, Laser somewhere between 54 and 81K.

I'm totally prepared to accept that the T will cost more in sails, but I've been told that the laser fleet change rigs AND sails.

Finally, each of the T's will be worth between10 and 14K at the end of the campaign (so that's 30-42K back)

What will the Lasers be worth ? not sure, but the laser site http://www.lasersailing.com/used-boats/uk/laser is showing prices between 1750 and 3500) so somewhere between.


At 1750 – between 21000 and 31500

And at 3500 – between 4200 6300


So I’d suggest there is not that must really in it.



T numbers

66K to 54K for campaign boat costs and get 30 to 42K back (so bottom line is costs of 24K)


Laser

54 and 81 for campaign boat costs and get between 21 and 63K back. (bottom line 18K to 33K)



So looking at the numbers, there is not that much in it.

Jeeeez, I was dumb enough to check the blog of Andy Rice again..




He says cost of the boat is not that high on the list himself, then goes on saying the Tornado is bad becouse of the cost.. and the inconvenience of transporting it.. Not many Tornado sailors complain about the beam. Then development is bad, when the most popular spi has been the same shape since 2002 (Gran Segel MK-4) and other sails see a very narrow improvement for each generation. Not much development on the rest of the platform tough. Then he want to kill off the F-18 class by giving the "one-design" Hobie Tiger olympic status.. And it goes on. Where do you begin kicking him to make him stop writing such biased drivel.

Full Andy "Multikiller" Rice blog is here: http://sailjuiceblog.com/

Rolf,
How about following up your rant with some facts, or at least something that feeds the other side of the opinion.

I mean this in all seriousness.

I don't even know who that guy is that wrote the thing that's got you so hot.

You've obviously been on the board a long time, so help out some of us relative newbies and fill us all in on the specifics.

It's not that I don't believe you. I only see that you don't like this guy much. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Rolf,

"We" and by this a mean a group of people in the UK related to the UKCRA have been on this case and many others over the last few weeks.

I've directly challeneged Andy Rice's comments re cost without a reply from him, this suggests (the lack of reply) that he cannot back his facts up and so produces another blog of 1/2 truths and opinion.

he's a journo stirring a story, and IMO is making a bit of a fool of himself with un-informed and incorrect comments that are not backed up by facts.

From Sail World

Don,

what do you want to know? The subject is rather large so it would be nice if you could be specific. If you have not already done so, reading trough his blog is rather revealing.
In contrast to other forums, time spent on this forum is not significant for what you have to say. It is a nice place.


Simon and T_A,
It is good to hear that he dont get it his way easily. But he do form opinion with his biased writing. Fortuately, the representatives deciding on the matter have a broader view on the matter than what Andy shows.

I guess I'm looking for the background on why he gets your blood boiling.
I read the blog, and it didn't even cause me to stir in the least.
Why do you consider him to be so destructive to our sport?

What he has done IMHO is jumped on the back end of the discussions on the Yachts and Yachting threads. Unfortunately he has set ou with good intents ie 11 into 10 won't go ie the 11 current Olympic classes are being whittled down to 10 and set out to discuss the merits and pitfalls of each class....... so far so good.... Then it goes down hill he refers to Bums on seats by refereing Olympic campaigns, IMHO with out of date or hyperthetical numbers, where as a better use would have been the number of campaigns to the number of slots available, so skewed the numbers to show the T Yngling and Star ant the bottom

He has then followed this up with a biased survey to proove the popularity of the current classes and then put an option for what he perceived as the 3 likely 'other' contenders ie match racing, team racing or womens skiff.... no mention of womens cat.

He then goes on to state that a start up costs of a Tornado campaignis 40,000 GBP or $80,000, totally unrealistic, we reckon start up costs approx half that, When challenged on this he has failed to date to produce his evidence of his costs. Unfortunatley people read this and beleive it so now the start up costs of a T are £40k.

So the rest you can read....hope this is brings you up to speed!

OK, that makes a little more sense. At least now I'll read some of his blog if I get the time.

Does this guy have some key position in the sailing world, or is he just very vocal about his opinions?

It would seem easy enough to counter his claims with the other side of the story until people stop responding.
There were only three responses to his blog, and they all were favorable.

Current Survey Results
http://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=Q572hDKRY8jC0bAt4nnB7LvKPszdUFDQmABaVKaWdb8_3d

Interesting survey, I didn't think it was anti-cat. I voted for the Star, Yngling and Tornado to go and bring in one of the F18's. The beam of the Tornado makes it unownable for me but an F18 is possible, not that I think I could get to the Olympics but it is good to compete in a class with professionals sailing in it too, I learn't lots sailing Lasers against sailors campaigning for Olympic selection.

Darryn
Mozzy 1782