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Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? #122395
11/06/07 06:43 PM
11/06/07 06:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Lets talk about your setup. I was studying this image, http://bp2.blogger.com/_w_dM5fbKB90/Rx7FeIkC7mI/AAAAAAAAABY/uaBWAeBVPoM/s1600/DSC00843.JPG linked due to its size.

Anyway I am interested to know how are you NOT using a compression strut on your forestay and bridle for your spin pole.

Your rudder hold down system, looks like it goes to a cleat just aft of the rear beam, is this true? Does it kick up or release? can you please explain.

Seems like you are coming in for a gybe, is this correct?

I also noticed the finished boom, looks very clean with the aft plug. Where can those be sorted out?
Also your mast rotation seems like the standard Taipan mast rotation setup, is this also correct?

What kind of spin halyard are you using single or double? Seems very clean. I also noticed a small line going from the snuffer line to the port spin sheet, what does this do for you?

Sorry for all the questions, your setup seems very simple and I am interested.

Look and learn in this image you can clearly see the mainsail is fully slacked with no downhaul. Also the mast rotation is all the way out. Gary can you confirm this information?

--Advertisement--
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Robi] #122396
11/06/07 06:50 PM
11/06/07 06:50 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,022
Lake Zurich, IL
MarkMT Offline
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Robi, I can't access the image - "Forbidden. Your client does not have permission to get URL /s1600 from this server."

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: MarkMT] #122397
11/06/07 07:09 PM
11/06/07 07:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline OP
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hmmm wierd. I am attaching it to this post.

Another thing I noticed your boat is trully a F16 uni rig, due to no jib cleats or even a self tacking jib traveler etc.

Me likey mucho!

Attached Files
123598-DSC00843.JPG (415 downloads)
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Robi] #122398
11/06/07 07:29 PM
11/06/07 07:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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It didn't download the first time, but when I highlighted the url and pressed enter, it gave me the option to save or open the file locally.

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Robi] #122399
11/06/07 08:24 PM
11/06/07 08:24 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,022
Lake Zurich, IL
MarkMT Offline
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Thanks, nice picture. Are there any more like that somewhere?

I guess the spin pole bridle lines take all the upward force. With the bridle lines tensioned, maybe there isn't much compression force on a strut. In another thread it was suggested that the role of the strut is actually to stabilize the jib luff. But I'm no expert. I'm sure Gary will clarify.

I'm also curious whether there are any differences in hull shape from the VWM Blade.

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Robi] #122400
11/06/07 08:44 PM
11/06/07 08:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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I don't think you need the compression strut if you don't use the jib. Not sure you really need it with the jib honestly if you have good non stretch mid spin pole bridle lines. The HT I used to have did not have a strut there- all it had was what I called a spin pole lift line that went to the forestay then to the middle of the spin pole. I think I might set mine up without the strut one of these days.

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: PTP] #122401
11/06/07 08:46 PM
11/06/07 08:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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I am also curious about how inboard the spin sheets are run. I wonder how this changes the downwind vectors.

Also looks like he lets the outhaul off on the main some. Seems like there would be a lot of draft in the main with that setting upwind.

Last edited by PTP; 11/06/07 08:48 PM.
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Robi] #122402
11/06/07 08:49 PM
11/06/07 08:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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Quote
hmmm wierd. I am attaching it to this post.

Another thing I noticed your boat is trully a F16 uni rig, due to no jib cleats or even a self tacking jib traveler etc.

Me likey mucho!

and single traps.

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: PTP] #122403
11/06/07 09:09 PM
11/06/07 09:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline OP
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The single traps thing is quite easy to do, only problem I see is you wont have a backup, although I have never broken a trap line yet.

The jib setup on the other hand makes you commit to single hand sailing because I am sure it no cake walk to reinstall all that hardware if you decided to take a crew out.

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: MarkMT] #122404
11/07/07 12:07 AM
11/07/07 12:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
Arkansas, USA
C
CaptainKirt Offline
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Actually, the Taipan 4.9's with the original jib (iw non-selftacker) don't have a strut so you have a line that goes from the pole up to the bridle, just as Gary has. The strut is strictly to support the luff of the jib so the jib downhaul tension stays essentially the same regardless of the tension of the forestay (vs say the typical "Hobie 16 way" where the jib forestay ends up taking all the tension with the actual wire forestay just sort of flopping around loose- this works okay for them because they have wire jib luffs and they tack to the bridle- with an F16 Blade setup you would end up with too much tension on either the jib luff material or spi pole/bridle- NOT a good thing IMO). I believe the Stealths don't use a strut either so you might look at some of their photos-
The old P19MX uses a strut and compression tube from the front beam just to get the jib lower to add power without healing and the old NACRA 6.0 uses the front compression "wing" with a pelican striker to achieve the same thing jib-wise while foregoing a front bridle in the conventional sense. I believe the Marstrom M18 uses CF "rods" at the end of the CF spi pole to both hold the pole up and support the tip without any midpole connections at all using a classic "A" cat style twin forestay setup for yet another option-- <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I personally feel with the flatter, newer style spinnakers the blocks should be inboard like Gary has them (at least on a uni-where theres on jib in the way-haven't sailed enough with jib and spi to have a feeling about that setup).

Kirt


Kirt Simmons
Taipan, Flyer
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Robi] #122405
11/07/07 02:42 AM
11/07/07 02:42 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
stillbitten Offline
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Quote
Lets talk about your setup. I was studying this image, http://bp2.blogger.com/_w_dM5fbKB90/Rx7FeIkC7mI/AAAAAAAAABY/uaBWAeBVPoM/s1600/DSC00843.JPG linked due to its size.

Anyway I am interested to know how are you NOT using a compression strut on your forestay and bridle for your spin pole.


Answer,without a jib it is not neccesary. I will have one when I get jib kit.


Your rudder hold down system, looks like it goes to a cleat just aft of the rear beam, is this true? Does it kick up or release? can you please explain.


Answer, yes it goes to a cleat, it has no kick up or release. Centre boards are longer than rudders.


Seems like you are coming in for a gybe, is this correct?


Answer, I am not sure, either coming in or going out.


I also noticed the finished boom, looks very clean with the aft plug. Where can those be sorted out?


Contact Marcus at Formula Catamarans Australia. By PM or email info@formulacatamarans.com


Also your mast rotation seems like the standard Taipan mast rotation setup, is this also correct?


Answer, no it is standard FCA set up, may be similar to Taipan, I have never seen one like it.


What kind of spin halyard are you using single or double? Seems very clean. I also noticed a small line going from the snuffer line to the port spin sheet, what does this do for you?


Answer, single line. Small line is the shock cord with a ring on the end I think. One end is tied to the clew under spin sheets, the other end has ring which the snuffer line goes through. The effect of this line is that it drags clew and therefore sheets into snuffer early, taking up the slack so the spin sheets can not hang in water etc.


Sorry for all the questions, your setup seems very simple and I am interested.


Answer, I am not sure about simple, but keeping it neat and clean free of loose ropes etc. is my priority.

Look and learn in this image you can clearly see the mainsail is fully slacked with no downhaul. Also the mast rotation is all the way out. Gary can you confirm this information?


Answer, yes I try to release downhaul as I bear away at top mark and dump coarse adjustment on rotation, before hoisting kite.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Robi] #122406
11/07/07 02:46 AM
11/07/07 02:46 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
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Quote
hmmm wierd. I am attaching it to this post.

Another thing I noticed your boat is trully a F16 uni rig, due to no jib cleats or even a self tacking jib traveler etc.

Me likey mucho!


Answer, it has not been set up for sloop rig yet. But the intention is to have all the sloop gear easily removable, so it is not carried when cat rigged. Will see how it goes when I get it.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: MarkMT] #122407
11/07/07 03:16 AM
11/07/07 03:16 AM
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Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
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Quote
Thanks, nice picture. Are there any more like that somewhere?

I'm also curious whether there are any differences in hull shape from the VWM Blade.


I am still waiting on all photo's from that event. But more photo's can be found here http://www.flickaway.com/tim/sailing/garysblade

I have never seen or measured a VWM Blade so can not be sure, but it is different to the prototype plywood Blade that I sailed. The deck is rounder, the main beam is further back, the max volume in hulls is further forward, the transoms are smaller, the bottom is rounder, the rocker line is slightly different.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: PTP] #122408
11/07/07 03:48 AM
11/07/07 03:48 AM
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Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
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Quote
I am also curious about how inboard the spin sheets are run. I wonder how this changes the downwind vectors.

Also looks like he lets the outhaul off on the main some. Seems like there would be a lot of draft in the main with that setting upwind.


With a 2.5m wide boat it is generaly thought in OZ that outer gunnell sheeting is to wide. On "Altered" I also had spin sheeting from inside the hulls. I think the sailing angles are controlled as much by spinnaker shape as the sheeting angles.

I don't touch the outhaul, when you give max rotation the foot gets fuller, also that main has just the right angles in relation to the clew tack. So that when you let off the downhaul the foot becomes fuller also. It's great when you pull that extra downhaul in a gust upwind, the foot pulls dead flat. I set the outhaul so it is flat when fully downhauled and never touch it again, not even when rigging or de rigging. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: stillbitten] #122409
11/07/07 12:05 PM
11/07/07 12:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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Gary,

What is the line for going from the sheeting-side of the spin(shoothoek in Dutch) and entering the snuffer. I suppose it is to clean the spin sheet from the tramp when sailing without spin. But how does it work....

Regards,
Gill

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Gilo] #122410
11/07/07 05:22 PM
11/07/07 05:22 PM
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Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
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Yes the line runs from the clew to a ring that the retrieval line passes through. It is there to pull the spinnaker sheet into the chute and away from the deck. You adjust the length of the line until all the sheet just disappears when the spinnaker is down.

This thread from a few weeks ago covered it:

Length of spi-line


Tim Shepperd
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Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Tim_Mozzie] #122411
11/08/07 12:14 PM
11/08/07 12:14 PM
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
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Thanks Tim.

It's just that the line seems to dissapear into the snufferbag, while I thought it would be further out...

Anyway, my boat is stowed away for winter now, so I will have to try it next year....

Regards,
Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
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Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Gilo] #122412
11/08/07 05:21 PM
11/08/07 05:21 PM
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East Gippsland, Australia
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That line running into the snuffer is the retrieval line. Instead of going straight up the centreline of the spinnaker through the patches it is first led through a small ring hanging from the clew of the spinnaker. Then the retrieval line continues up through the patches as usual.

The ring is hanging on a piece of cord or elastic about a foot long. You can see it in the photo.

[Linked Image]


Tim Shepperd
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Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: Gilo] #122413
11/09/07 03:27 PM
11/09/07 03:27 PM
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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I love the bicycle style water bottle and holder. That is brilliant.

Re: Paging Gary former Altered Sailor - u here? [Re: PTP] #122414
11/11/07 01:47 AM
11/11/07 01:47 AM
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Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
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Hi PTP,

I like having fresh water close to hand, main use rinsing my face when windy, drinking when light winds. I have now moved holder to front of mast as it was getting in the way of spinnaker halyard cleat when mast rotated heavily on starboard side.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
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