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reef my mainsail? #12258
10/29/02 02:42 PM
10/29/02 02:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 148
Charleston SC
h17windbtch6333 Offline OP
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h17windbtch6333  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 148
Charleston SC
You know those days when its blowing stink and you cant find crew? and its honkin' too hard to go out with expectation that you'll make it back, in the 20-25 knot range? I only sail with the main. If I took the sail to a local sailmaker how would i tell them to reef it? How far down should i reef the thing to spill more air? How would i rig a reef rig on the halyard? The outhual is adjustable so that shouldnt be a problem. I just feel useless and a waste letting all that wind just blow by!!

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: h17windbtch6333] #12259
10/29/02 04:37 PM
10/29/02 04:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline
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Mike Fahle  Offline
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Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
One idea is to acquire a used sail (or buy a new one for racing and do this to the current sail) and have the sailmaker cut out the roach. The leech will have a hollow from head to clew (like unbattened jibs) which will remove as much as 40% of the sail area, depending on how big the roach was to start. The advantages to this approach are: You eliminate the need for battens - imagine not having to be concerned about the battens when you crash and burn or do fast, hard jibes in big air; You eliminate the need for extra fittings to allow reefing; You preserve your good sail for the more moderate conditions it was designed for. Reefing a sail creates high stress areas and adding reef points and patches adds weight to a sail and can distort the way it responds to wind pressure; This change should be pretty quick and inexpensive to complete since it is so simple. Give this approach some serious consideration.



Mike

Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: Mike Fahle] #12260
10/29/02 05:03 PM
10/29/02 05:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Ed Norris Offline
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Ed Norris  Offline
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Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Hi, MIke!

What's a mystere 5.0 look like anayway. Is it a boardless competitor to the N5.0 and the H16 & P16? Or something else alltogether?



Just curious.


Sail Fast, Ed Norris
There are a number of options.... [Re: h17windbtch6333] #12261
10/29/02 05:05 PM
10/29/02 05:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Farmington, Utah
thouse Offline
journeyman
thouse  Offline
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Posts: 50
Farmington, Utah
I'm discovering there are a number of options, to keep the boat under control and sailing fast, as the wind speed increases.



Certainly too much sail, in faster wind speeds, seems to cause more heeling and less speed.



I'd guess that is because more sail area probably is also producing more drag.. so in very fast wind, less sail (i.e., a reefed main) is probably faster than a main that is being eased to keep the boat on it's feet..



One thing I do is to loosen the main sheet and really harden the jib's halyard. I then, again go back to hardening my main sheet.



I'd guess hardening both, is helping to ensure both sails are as flat as possible, even before one cranks things down to induce mast top bending.



The next thing I'm noticing is in higher wind, I think my sail clothe stretches more than in light air, due to the high with pressures against it. I'd guess this allows the sail's draft to move aft... in the higher wind speeds.



If I ease the jib sheets, just a bit, I can get the jib's head to twist off a bit and open the slot a bit, producing a bit less heel.



I sure you've also discovered the benefits of hardening up your main sail down haul...to help keep the boat sailing fast and reducing heeling.



I also play with the sail slot, opening or closing it, to decrease or increase how much air is going through it... which also affects how much my boat is heeling.



I also notice, when the wind hits gets above certain speeds, I’d rather be watching from the beach, with my sails stowed, the boat secure and the mast down…..



Just some thoughts...



Tom H.


Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: Ed Norris] #12262
10/29/02 05:33 PM
10/29/02 05:33 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Central California
Ed,



The Mystere 5.0 is very similar to your N5.0. It's boardless but with symmetric hulls. The built in skeg in the hull is more well defined (like on some of the new boardless Hobies) in terms of the hull shape.



I believe that the Mystere 5.0 comes is an XL version also that includes a spinnaker set up. Never sailed one but have seen them around.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: h17windbtch6333] #12263
10/29/02 06:50 PM
10/29/02 06:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 215
Durham, North Carolina
jwrobie Offline
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jwrobie  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 215
Durham, North Carolina
On my Prindle 16, I have one reef point, which is about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. It's basically three grommets in the sail. I attach the outhaul to the grommet at the leech, which becomes the clew when it is reefed.



I roll up the bottom of the sail and use line through the three grommets to hold the roll together.



So I suspect you wouldn't need much more than a few grommets in your sail.



Jonathan

Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: h17windbtch6333] #12264
10/29/02 08:31 PM
10/29/02 08:31 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,114
BANNED
I've got a neil pryde H17 sail that has reefing points in it. Although, I don't think I'd ever use them.



I don't even use that sail anymore, just let out the sheet a bit :P


Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: h17windbtch6333] #12265
10/29/02 08:32 PM
10/29/02 08:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
I agree with Mike. Your best bet is to find a dacron sail and have a bit shaved off the roach. I would keep the battens though.



Mike


Have Fun
Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: h17windbtch6333] #12266
10/29/02 11:42 PM
10/29/02 11:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
PSAILOR Offline
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PSAILOR  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
I tried this on an older H17 I ahd and this is the main problem I ran into:



The sail uses a hook at the top of the mast and I made a short cable, connecting one end to the top of the sail and installing a ring on the other end. This way I could raise the main and hook it lower than intended. When sailing, the force on the sail would cause the comptip to bend slightly creating a force on the luff of the sail at the top that would pull it out of the comptip luff track every time. Lowering the sail is a bitch after this happens, roll the boat on its side and fight it down. I usually had to take the comptip track off of the comptip.



I did come up with a solution that worked well, although I don't know if it is the best of ideas. I picked up a peice of aluminum tubing, I htink 1/2", from the hadware store and cut about a 6" piece. Then used a dremel tool and cut a groove lenthwise in the tube ( a straight cut about 1/8" wide). I slid the tube over the luff rope at the top of the sail and squeezed it on with pliers. It just fit inside the sail guide at the bottom of the mast. The tube fattened up the luff and would not give enought to pull out of the track.



Good luck with your sail!

Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: ejpoulsen] #12267
10/30/02 12:48 AM
10/30/02 12:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
old hand
hobiegary  Offline
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Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
Ed,



You've seen them around? I sail a Mystere 6.0 in Los Angeles. I have never seen another Mystere.



Just to stay within the subject matter of this thread, I've attached a picture of my reefed main sail.

Attached Files
12393-CATALI9.JPG (44 downloads)

Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: PSAILOR] #12268
10/30/02 09:25 AM
10/30/02 09:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Ed Norris Offline
enthusiast
Ed Norris  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Would it work to just attach a couple o' lugs to the wire? Couple bux @ West marine.


Sail Fast, Ed Norris
Re: reef my mainsail? [Re: Ed Norris] #12269
10/30/02 09:50 AM
10/30/02 09:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
PSAILOR Offline
member
PSAILOR  Offline
member

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
The H17 uses a line that runs down the inside of the mast with a hook at the top of the mast and a ring at the top of the sail, not a wire with lugs on the front of the mast like the Prindle and H16.



Unless I am mis-understanding the lugs you are refering to.



Mike

Yup, I wasn't clear at all.... [Re: PSAILOR] #12270
10/30/02 11:30 AM
10/30/02 11:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Ed Norris Offline
enthusiast
Ed Norris  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 292
Long Island, NY
Yes, I was unclear. I meant sail track lugs, with little SS straps embedded in nylon cylinders - put one or two above the sail, on the added wire, to hold it parallel to the curving luff track in the comp tip. This way, you've got no aluminum-on-aluminum or worse, aluminum-on-carbon friction and attendent abrasion.


Sail Fast, Ed Norris
Re: Luff track upgrade kit [Re: Ed Norris] #12271
10/30/02 12:33 PM
10/30/02 12:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
samevans Offline
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samevans  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
The main hakyard of a Hobie 17 runs inside the mast track next to the sail luff rope, not inside the mast.

There is a luff track upgrade kit which prevents the pullout problem.

It consists of an approx. 12 inch long section of aluminum mast track. The top 12" of the plastic luff track is cut off and the aluminum section is installed in it's place.

It is also usually a good idea to replace the old style thin Hobie 17 hook with a Hobie 20 or 21 hook which is made of much thicker metal.

Re: Luff track upgrade kit [Re: samevans] #12272
10/30/02 05:10 PM
10/30/02 05:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 148
Charleston SC
h17windbtch6333 Offline OP
member
h17windbtch6333  Offline OP
member

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 148
Charleston SC
ok, great, but how much of the sail should be reefed? above or below a batten?


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