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by Frank N. 05/04/22 07:38 PM
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Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Timbo] #122819
11/13/07 08:29 AM
11/13/07 08:29 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Quote
They say it's all about Medal production, well, how many medals have the US Sailors gathered in those two events in the past 30 years?? I can think of lots of other classes where the US has not had a medal in quite a while, but the Tornado Sailors have been producing for medals for years. What a slap in the face to them.

I didnt have time to go through 30 years of history, but at Athens 2004 the US got 1 gold for the 470 men, and 1 silver for the Tornado.
http://www.olympic.org/uk/games/past/table_uk.asp?OLGT=1&OLGY=2004

The search form below allows you to search for all medals: http://www.olympic.org/uk/athletes/results/search_r_uk.asp

Last edited by Tony_F18; 11/13/07 08:33 AM.
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Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Wouter] #122820
11/13/07 10:50 AM
11/13/07 10:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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Western Australia
My prediction..
Anger will die down.. The momentum will be lost as it looks like happening already..
ISAF will shrug it off and continue without regard.. US Sailing will do the same..

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Stewart] #122821
11/13/07 11:24 AM
11/13/07 11:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Timbo, aren't the PNs assigned by the MHC (which would be us)? Can't we lobby for ourselves to use the Texel, etc. instead of PNs? This of course, assumes PNs really are not as good as Texel, as you say. I have no idea, I race SMOD specifically to avoid that problem. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bob got a silver in 470 in Sydney. Hey Bob, nothing against JW, but why can't we vote YOU onto the board? You're an Olympic medalist and chair of the HCA!!! Best case would be to have BOTH of you on the board!

Mike

Walking around the mountain [Re: John Williams] #122822
11/13/07 11:41 AM
11/13/07 11:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Quote
I am working toward an understanding of the problem so that I may defeat it. Defeating it may mean walking around the mountain rather than over it.


The mountain will be there for a long time, so we should start analysing possible actions for the short, medium and long terms instead of fighting each other. I suggest the following:


SHORT TERM

The equipment is already known but the classes are yet to be chosen. "Dinghy" does not necessarily mean monohull.

It is possible to lobby for the A Class (or another single-handed dinghy cat) to replace the Finn, Laser and/or Laser radial - and for the Tornado (or another double-handed dinghy cat) to replace the 470, 49er and/or women's 470.

It is definitely not an easy task, but I guess it's the best we can do for a start - besides crying as loud as possible.


MEDIUM TERM

This development (no multihulls in the Olympics) is a consequence of the inexistence of a suitable “entry cat” competing in the same market niche of the Optimist.

An "entry cat program" is the most important action for the medium and long term development of multihulls. The F12 forum in this very site has been working on it for some time now, and most of the work is ready. Lets make it happen.


LONG TERM

In the long term we'll all be dead (ultimately <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />), but in the meantime, I agree with Mr. Williams: work within the sailing organizations to better influence the sport's politics.


I guess we can all contribute with smart strategic ideas for the future, so please bring them to discussion. No terrorism, please...


Lastly, take a look at this:
"It is irrelevant to discuss Olympic equipment - anything goes, provided everyone else is sailing the same bath tub".

I want a better answer than:
"From my point of view, everyone else is sailing multihulls. Aren't we 'someone'?."

Luiz


Luiz
Re: Walking around the mountain [Re: Luiz] #122823
11/13/07 12:02 PM
11/13/07 12:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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I still like my suggestion... Hobie 16 with spin for the women's match racing competition....

I still like the idea of pink wetsuits contrasting with the cold waters of the North Sea!


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Stewart] #122824
11/13/07 12:09 PM
11/13/07 12:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
My prediction..
Anger will die down.. The momentum will be lost as it looks like happening already..
ISAF will shrug it off and continue without regard.. US Sailing will do the same..


There is a lot going on in the background.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Tony_F18] #122825
11/13/07 12:14 PM
11/13/07 12:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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Let's think about how to overturn this decision. When the Star's got voted out a few years ago they lobbied hard. They got an extra event(number 11) added on just for them. Let's think about how we could do the same thing. How we can lobby to tack on the extra event like the Star's did. Possibly how we could go back and change the decision.

What I don't understand is why the US didn't swing one vote from each delegate away from the (forgone conclusion) single handed mono classes. If it's all about winning the classes important to them they could have done this and insured a win. Fact is the powers that be don't want multihulls in the Olympics. I guarentee if they had ten more mono classes to vote on they would vote them all ahead of a multi.

The only chance we have is to lobby to get an extra event added on is my guess. We have to fix this now or suffer the consequences of a loss of membership in US Sailing from the multihull community.

Mike Hill

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Tony_F18] #122826
11/13/07 12:19 PM
11/13/07 12:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 42
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16nut Offline
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So you guys are still deciding whether to stay with US Sailing? I left US Sailing last year for many reasons, and heck they are not just biased against multihulls. I joined the ASA which is much more multihull friendly and I continue to support the NAHCA. The Tornado being cut from the Olympics is no surprise, now I am waiting for sailing in general to be cut from the Olympics, which mark my words it WILL happen it’s just a matter of time. Without the most exciting class in the Olympics (the Tornado) the fate of sailing in the Olympics is set (out of there). ISAF, etc. may have their satisfaction now but it will be short lived, they shot themselves in the foot and they are just not feeling the affects yet.

I am sorry to say I never watched sailing in the Olympics anyways as most of the time they never show it but with short clips.

I am re-certifying as an instructor in the ASA, I just took my first re-cert course in Oct. in Oakland and will take 3 more in March.

Bye bye US Sailing and ISAF! Hello ASA!

Last edited by 16nut; 11/13/07 12:24 PM.
Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Mike Hill] #122827
11/13/07 12:30 PM
11/13/07 12:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 17
O
Olli Offline
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Quote

What I don't understand is why the US didn't swing one vote from each delegate away from the (forgone conclusion) single handed mono classes. If it's all about winning the classes important to them they could have done this and insured a win. Fact is the powers that be don't want multihulls in the Olympics. I guarentee if they had ten more mono classes to vote on they would vote them all ahead of a multi.


You do know that all three US delegates voted against the multihulls right?

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Tony_F18] #122828
11/13/07 12:35 PM
11/13/07 12:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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New Hampshire, USA
John,

I am a little at a loss here considering the medal winners from Athens as well. John & Charlie take silver on tornado and Paul & Kevin take gold on the men's 470. What are the prospects for 2008? I definately disagree with how the voting went, but also realize that there needs to be more active participation from multihull sailors in this process. With that said, how often do you want to deal with getting slapped around and pushed off race courses? I do a great deal of lake sailing and there are only a couple of events a year for multihulls because neither the monohull sailors or the RC wants to have them on the starting line. Yes, get involved, but sometimes the back room deals that get struck are more than a little frrustrating.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: windswept] #122829
11/13/07 01:01 PM
11/13/07 01:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 75
Florida
soulcat01 Offline
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Florida
WOW! Such urgency. Why now? Where were you when your area Alter Cup Qualifiers were in town. If your area rep could have reported good numbers, it would have spoken volumes.
I hate to be the realist here, but we kind of shot ourselves in the foot by being arrogant.

Re: Walking around the mountain [Re: Luiz] #122830
11/13/07 01:12 PM
11/13/07 01:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 39
Central Europe
ceitzi Offline
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Central Europe
Quote

SHORT TERM

The equipment is already known but the classes are yet to be chosen. "Dinghy" does not necessarily mean monohull.
....


Please do not forget that we may also work with the IOC to get that decision changed.
Please use the opportunity to sign the petition of the UKCRA, if you have not yet done so.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/multihullinolympics/index.html

Ceitzi

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: windswept] #122831
11/13/07 01:29 PM
11/13/07 01:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 353
Key Largo
barbshort Offline
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Key Largo
I'm interested to hear from MHC with an official position. JW is working his butt off at the moment and when our guys behind the scenes come to a consensus then we'll have something to work with.

"Infiltrating" is so incredibly easy and everybody should be doing it at their club. When a bunch of us cat sailors joined our local club we had 2 of us on the board within a year. One of us is Vice Commodore, a flag officer.

All you have to do is show up, get to know the folks in the club (don't be cliqueish), put the effort in (volunteer, volunteer, volunteer) and be a little bit of a politician. Don't shoot from the lip, pick your battles, be helpful, fair, and gently nudge things in the direction you want them to go.

Our fellow club members love us cat sailors. The club is functioning better as a result of our efforts. We are reliable and they know we can and will come through in a pinch. We race on their monoslugs with them for PHRF races or run their race course. We help tune their boats and sail trim by sailing with them. They appreciate it.

Yeah, they always think of us as the multihull sailors, but it's not a dirty word any more. And you'd be surprised how reasonable most of the mono guys are. They are some great friends. Once they trust us/you it's easy to get things done. Build the love and the trust.

If your club has open board meetings attend them and just sit and listen. Be consistent and show up every month and just take things in. You'll learn how things work at your club. You'll learn the personalities. Volunteer to chair a committee, be the point person for an event, just get out there and make yourself useful. Then, next elections, volunteer for a position on your board or as an officer.

All you have to do is make an investment (time and effort) in order to reap the rewards. Try it, you'll like it!

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: barbshort] #122832
11/14/07 02:37 AM
11/14/07 02:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline
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Sydney Australia
It's simple people. We need to make ourselves more visible instead of hiding away on backwaters doing our own thing.

Sailboat racing generally is an untapped resource for corporate exposure.

The continuation of sailing as an Olympic event is highly dependent on it being made a suitable spectator sport and a vehicle for advertising.
Unlike most sports, [Football, Baseball Cricket etc.,] not only are there shirts for advertising, we have a very large canvas billboard in the sail.

Presently, sailing is not popular with the general public. It's lack of appeal is mainly due to it being conducted in a geographic location which is not spectator friendly. This means that television coverage is absolutely critical to the success of sailboat racing as a spectator sport, probably more so than for any other sport, yet TV coverage of sailing is possibly the poorest of any sport.
To encourage the general public to adopt sailboat racing as a spectator sport, good television coverage is necessary, but although sailing is a difficult sport to televise, there has been very little development in method and technology.
TV coverage of the sailing is mostly done by 'general' sports produces, directors and commentators' who often know very little if anything about sailing. This generally results in an inferior product which, although of some interest to sailors, has little appeal or entertainment value for the general public. Put simply, there are not many if any directors and/or commentators who can produce a product to give an accurate, comprehensible and interesting account of a sailboat race for Mr. Joe average. This means that although a sail is a great canvas for advertising, sponsors are not keen to put money into sailing in general because the sport lacks exposure.

We desperately need good, well trained directors and commentators as well as some specific development in image capturing technology for the sport. With so many Television broadcasters worldwide, it should be a gold mine.

We now have the opportunity to develop catamaran sailing as a great sport for spectators and sponsors and a very lucrative investment opportunity for entrepreneurs.
What we have to do is develop a way to televise it, then produce it sensibly, with good direction, and commentary [NOT the Rob Mundle method], in a way which is palatable to the general public.
We could lead the way here and then the IOC and the ISAF would beg us to let them use us. Difficult but not impossible.

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Berny] #122833
11/14/07 06:29 AM
11/14/07 06:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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http://www.hospiceregattas.org/ Sanctioned by US Sailing.

I'll be attending the local event in Naples, Florida Feb. 2, '08. Beach cats will be using the same course as the "sport boats". We will have our own start assuming there are 5 boats.

Also, I am trying to start an event at my home club, GYC. http://www.gulfportyachtclub.com/


Last edited by Tikipete; 11/14/07 06:32 AM.
Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: fin.] #122834
11/14/07 06:41 AM
11/14/07 06:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Your actions are a little bit overlooked by most of us here, Pete. But you are doing great grassroots work by showcase cats at events like the Hospice regatta. I just want to show my appreciation of that.

Great multiprone approach.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Wouter] #122835
11/14/07 06:44 AM
11/14/07 06:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
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fin. Offline
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Thanks Wouter. How 'bout some NL events? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: fin.] #122836
11/14/07 07:11 AM
11/14/07 07:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Most open regatta's that have mono already have a catamaran segment overhere. Example, North Sea Regatta, Round Ijsselmeer, Round Fluessen, the "24-hour race". Catsailing is also extremely visible here with over 40 cat clubs on basically a 300 km coastline. One every 7 km (5 miles). And the largest cat club (300 - 400 boats) being located on the lake were most dinghies are. And of course the Round Texel each year with a 15-30 minutes coverage on national TV.

It is hard to envision doing more then that.

That is also the reason why the voting of the Benelux (Dutch) representative was such a surprise.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Timbo] #122837
11/14/07 10:45 AM
11/14/07 10:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
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Posts: 953
Western Australia
How the Au situation is..
everyone joind a club to sail.. part of the fees go to the state yachting association.. then a fee is levied by YA on the state body. $15 or so for every registered sailor at a club.. They get a silver card..
YA pays ISAF $25,000 as a membership fee..
The reason I obtained from YA was because ISAF was the only association IOC would speak with when it comes to sailing..

For what its worth..

Re: Tornado ruled out by ISAF [Re: Wouter] #122838
11/14/07 01:07 PM
11/14/07 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Wouter

Perhaps you guys have grown tired of the ex pat Mitch Booth machine.

If he hasn't gotten the medal for you by now.. ... time to try another class and another stud sailor for a medal.


crac.sailregattas.com
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