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Optimal spin pole length? #124195
11/19/07 10:45 PM
11/19/07 10:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline OP
enthusiast
papayamon2  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
I'm changing from a fiberglass to an aluminum spin pole on my 14' cat (actually flying a hooter), and I'm wondering whether there's an advantage to making the new pole longer or shorter than the current 10 feet. There is 5'2" distance from the front crossbar to tip of hull--is there any benefit to having the spin pole way out front? Or closer in? I've experimented a little with the current pole and didn't notice any difference in weather helm, but I was wondering more from a speed/efficiency perspective. Is there any formula for optimal length, or does it matter as long as you can manuever the headsail in front of the jib?

Thanks!
Kevin
Trac 14

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124196
11/19/07 11:07 PM
11/19/07 11:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
old hand
gree2056  Offline
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Posts: 902
Norman,OK
You keep talking about this boat and the rig on it. Take a picture of it!

Other than that I know nothing.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: gree2056] #124197
11/20/07 12:48 AM
11/20/07 12:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
Quote
You keep talking about this boat and the rig on it. Take a picture of it!

Other than that I know nothing.


Agreed, give us something to think about.

Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: warbird] #124198
11/20/07 07:13 AM
11/20/07 07:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline OP
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papayamon2  Offline OP
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Largo, Florida
Glad to take a pic next time I'm out (probably not till next week, though)--but I'd like to rig this new pole before I go out on that day. I guess my basic question is simply, all things being equal, is there any advantage to having the tack of the spin/hooter further out or closer? Measure twice, cut once...thought some collective wisdom would be in order here! Thanks.

Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124199
11/20/07 11:26 AM
11/20/07 11:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 263
SC
zander Offline
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zander  Offline
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SC
The cut of the sail will help determine the pole legnth. How much luff tension does the sail require? and the angle of attack to the wind? The sail will tell you alot.


Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won't expect it back.
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: zander] #124200
11/20/07 01:19 PM
11/20/07 01:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
DougSnell Offline
Pooh-Bah
DougSnell  Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 1,690
Seabrook, TX
My 4.3 is about 14' and new pole I had made was 90 5/8" not counting the snuffer hoop. I have a snuffer like the I-20.

Doug

Attached Files
125385-IMG_0692.JPG (106 downloads)
Last edited by DougSnell; 11/20/07 01:20 PM.
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: gree2056] #124201
11/29/07 07:15 AM
11/29/07 07:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline OP
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papayamon2  Offline OP
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Largo, Florida
OK, here are a few pictures of my Trac 14 with hooter. This first one just shows the whole setup from a distance. I know the hound doesn't go as high on the mast as some, but the Trac doesn't have diamond wires and I didn't want to put strain too far up.

Attached Files
126261-DCFC0060.JPG (114 downloads)
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124202
11/29/07 07:17 AM
11/29/07 07:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline OP
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papayamon2  Offline OP
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Largo, Florida
Here's one of the rigging.

Attached Files
126262-DCFC0059.JPG (110 downloads)
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124203
11/29/07 07:23 AM
11/29/07 07:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline OP
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papayamon2  Offline OP
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Largo, Florida
And here's one showing the setup I've come up with so that the end of the pole can be swung from side to side, all the way over to each hull. The line from the tip of the pole runs to a pulley at the bow eye, then back to a jam cleat on the front crossbar. It has seemed advantageous a few times already to have this ability--has anyone else messed with this idea? At any rate, any ideas or input is welcome on the whole rig.

Attached Files
126264-DCFC0062.JPG (135 downloads)
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124204
11/29/07 09:42 AM
11/29/07 09:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
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gree2056  Offline
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Norman,OK
OKay...
First thing I see is that the tip of your pole is unsupported and in high winds might break off, I would suggest lines running from the bows to the tip of the pole to fix that.
Then don't worry about the moving pole and just get the thing centered and stabalized.
Secondly, the line (bungee cord) attaching the pole to the bridle wires needs to be solid and not stretchy. Use a piece of low stretch line and using the lines that you will be attaching to the end of the pole apply enough pressure so that the pole is slightly bent downwards, this is known as prebend and also helps the pole from breaking.

Others have tried the moving pole and didn't have much luck. Cats are fast enough that the appearant wind is very far forward and the moving pole just isn't needed...or at least that is how I understand it.

But cool rig and be ready to get ripped apart.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124205
11/29/07 09:45 AM
11/29/07 09:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Bring it over to GYC and have a look out our rigging.

http://www.gulfportyachtclub.com/

Last race of the year is Saturday. $10. Three races food and drink after.

Last edited by Tikipete; 11/29/07 09:47 AM.
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: gree2056] #124206
11/29/07 10:43 AM
11/29/07 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
papayamon2 Offline OP
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papayamon2  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 241
Largo, Florida
Gree, the end of the pole is supported. The line that controls horizontal swing from side to side, when cleated, also holds the end of the pole down as if tied to the bow eyes (although actually coming off the pulleys there). As for pre-bend, I'll do that if needed. So far, I've had it in 20 knot wind with no ill effects, and w/out prebend works better along with the bungee to allow the tip to move from side to side. Whether that's a desirable feature will have to be worked out in the spring with further testing (and I can always go back to a traditional setup w/ pre-bend and stationary pole), but my conclusion so far is that it does seem helpful at times. Plus, it's one more set of lines to tinker with! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124207
11/29/07 06:10 PM
11/29/07 06:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
old hand
gree2056  Offline
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Posts: 902
Norman,OK
I wasn't worried about it being held down as much as side to side.
But hey if you can sail in 20knts and nothing broke then you seem to be in good shape.
The biggest reason I could see for the none moving pole would be that it does add complexity which when sailing solo is bad at times. So basically the gain my not be worth it.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: gree2056] #124208
11/29/07 08:30 PM
11/29/07 08:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
ARC21 w/hooter

Re: Optimal spin pole length? [Re: papayamon2] #124209
11/30/07 04:18 PM
11/30/07 04:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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warbird  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
Quote
OK, here are a few pictures of my Trac 14 with hooter. This first one just shows the whole setup from a distance. I know the hound doesn't go as high on the mast as some, but the Trac doesn't have diamond wires and I didn't want to put strain too far up.


I Sailed the Windrush. your boat name here a lot and really enjoyed it and I love what you have done. Well done on the rig, the ideas you are trying and the clear photos.

Sail fast

Attached Files
126405-SailFastskull.JPG (64 downloads)

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