Only a couple of %, but it is growing. The basic problem is that the western consumer is using ludicrous amounts of energy per head. There is no way we can support that level of consumption with renewable resources. Certainly not if more and more people of developping nations are added.

That is just not sustainable no matter how you slice it and that is why our societies are going to change. Irrespectibally whether Nuclear energy, shale oil, coal or whatever is used.

Basically, we only need to look at what a family car burns off. A person on a bicycle uses about 250 watt to get somewhere at 15 miles per hour. 37000 Joules per kilometer (60000 per mile). When I use my car, a very fuel efficient Toyota starlet (15 km to the litre = 60 mpg) I'm burning off 2400000 joules per km or 65 times as much energy. Take your average redneck 8 cylinder 6 liter pick-up truck and be really amazed. Or take air travel !

What if we fitted out these bicycles with small motors and drive around like that ? Take a wild guess at the energy (and money) saved by that. Things like that will happen as that is the only way to get the job done. Looking for other sources to sustain our current consumption level are simply beyond imagination.

Wouter

Man, we really do have to start at the beginning with you. Because it makes Americans feel powerful to drive things like this:



14 MPG



10 mpg

You can't even carry all of your cabinets in that thing <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What does this mean?
Before the Industial Revolution there was about 280PPM of co2 in the atmosphere, in the 50s it was at 315ppm, and now it's at 380ppm. Must be part of the natural carbon cycle. It couldn't have anything to do with burning petrolium.



So, what? You want to send in our overstretched military to extract oil from Russia(9.5 million barrel per day production in 2005) and countries on the African continent(9.8 miilon barrel production per day in 2005) so the American public can drive their bling around? I think there are better uses of our millitary.



Still, no one answered how I'm being scammed by global warming as stated in several inflamitory posts. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You could drive one of these at around 140 mpg. But it isn't too usefull.


But I make a [censored]-ton of money with one of these at around 20mpg:



If I could afford a Hummer (not H2) for a run around vehicle I would be all over it.

People piss away all sorts of money on "hybrid" cars, they don't get that great of milage for what you pay and I can't imagine that the batteries are that helpfull to the enviroment either in production or disposal. You can get a diesel VW jetta that gets 50mpg easily, and still can get onto the I-roads at a decent clip. The navigator in your picture could probably get 25 mpg and have more power if it had a modern turbo'd diesel. The H2 could probably be in the same ballpark.

Hows this for fuel savings. I loaded 8 boats into a trailer, and got 12.3 mpg over the course of a 2400 mile trip.





How much fuel did I save vs. having 8 different people drive 8 different vehicles half way across the country.

I do my part -- Our car is a 1990 Honda Civic with 160,000 miles, burns no oil and gets 49 mpg. Usually have to fill up the 10 gallon tank about once a month.
And it pulls catamarans as well. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Rick

Ok if I take this all in all we need to do is go back to living in caves and ride bicycles. So honestly what is the solution? I think sailing fits in nicely related to going green other than the energy and material that it takes to produce them. And by the way lets call this a world issue not just an American one. Honestly I don't believe China will ever go green but that does not mean that American needs to follow suit! I believe in American ingenuity and in other free loving countries ingenuity as well. So there is a solution and I don't believe living in caves and only riding bicycles (I cycle to work almost everyday) is the answer.

According to Nate Lewis (my former chemistry prof.) in Caltech's "Engineering & Science" alumni magazine, the US is at the point where we'd have to cover 40% of the US with corn fields to satisfy our energy needs via ethanol... or 10% of the US with today's solar technology... and Solar's the most sustainable energy source... and we expect 30% more people in the US in 30 years.

We're not yet at unsustainable levels, but I won't argue that current levels are not "ludicrous," as you say.

So, Nate is focusing his research on amorphous silicon solar cells. If they can be made to work well enough, then solar becomes the economically preferred option in sunny areas with high energy costs, such as Southern California, where I live. That's why my dream home is solar.

--Glenn

There's snow on the ground and ice on the lake and it's not winter yet. Could be a good ice boating year,terrific!!!Live on the same latitude as Northern Calif.

Fred

Karl, you will be happy to know there is a guy in Kansas who is doing turbo-diesel conversions to hummers and any other big SUV, claims he can make them get at least 50mpg on Bio-diesel. The down side is his conversion costs about $40,000, and that's after you bring him the Hummer you bought, but he says he has no lack of customers. Neil Young (the rock star) is having his 1959 Buick converted to a turbo diesel, supposed to get 100 mpg when it's done. So the question is, why isn't Detroit doing it?

The diesel option on my truck was an extra $6000 bucks. And as to why, I don't know. Americans don't like diesel for some reason. People think they're stinky, (they are), people think they're noisy, (old ones are). Stinky is a state of mind I guess. Both my girlfriend and I grew up on farms so we get all nostalgic when we smell a diesel engine on a cold morning. New diesel engine are creepy quiet, the current generation stuff is actually quieter than the a gas engine of the same displacement. Diesel engines uses less fuel, get better fuel economy, and make more power. Plus diesel is really easy to refine. Bio diesel is a long ways off from being a viable fuel source. There have been many issues with a lack of lubricity which is hard on the injection pumps that rely on the "oily-ness" to keep things working smooth. Another down side is the gell temp is much higher than that of convention diesel fuel. If you live somewhere that stays semi warm, gelling isn't an issue, but it gets flipping cold up here come january. I think somewhere around 6% of non-commercial vehicles in the U.S. are diesel, where as europe I think it is above 70% is diesel powered. My pickup weighs 7500 pounds and gets 21mpg in the summer, on winter fuel I'm down around 19mpg. To me that is very impressive. Especially when a Honda civic that weighs less than a quarter of what my pickup does, has a third of the displacement, and a quarter of the power only gets twice the milage.

If you want to go on a bender about CO2. You can lock yourself in the garage with a diesel engine running and not kill yourself. The enviromentalist types don't like diesel because of sulpher emission and acid rain. But that isn't much of an issue any longer with the new crappy fuel that we get. The old fuel, (pre 2007) was 1500 ppm sulpher, the new stuff is 15 ppm. I dropped 2mpg instantly when we switched to the "improved" diesel. Another marvelous thing to come out of the Clinton administration. Thanks Bill <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Tikipete- From a CIA website:
Oil production
Saudia Arabia 9.475 million Barrels per day
Russia 9.4
Nigeria 2.4
USA 7.61
Iran 3.979
Iraq 2.5
UAE 2.54
China 3.631
Kazakhstan 1.3
Kuwait 2.418

Same website says we use 20.73 million barrels/day. Global is about 83 million.

I'm willing to bet that essentially none of Russia's oil production comes from inland russia. Most of it comes from drilling in the Bering sea, and whatever body of water is in between Vladivistok, and Japan. I can't find my atlas.

Russia does produce alot more than I had thought.

Lord! I'm getting old, I was probably thinking Russia and Kazakhstan together (old USSR)! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

btw- with purely mischevious intent, I think I will cite this as my primary source of fact! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

I saw on some engineering show on Discovery that this is a large part of the reason why New Orleans is sinking further below sea level - the removal of natural gas deposits under the city.

Wells for water is one of the reasons that Venice is sinking.

In Australia we pay an extra federal levy on diesel to deter the use of diesel and fund research into alternative fuels. Works as you'd expect, we pay more for our diesel and there's no new alternatives come out of it.

... and I suspect your new government to be even better at spending and collecting your money, but hopefully they will guaranty a consistently high price for diesel and private industry will be driven to find an energy solution?

I had a great 5 hour sail on my Hydra today.

Yeah great new Govt, bet we'll get out of Iraq, learn to speak Mandarin, pay higher interest rates, develop a social conscience that will bring the country to its knees again with unions etc just like last time they were in.

My pickup weighs 7500 pounds and gets 21mpg in the summer, on winter fuel I'm down around 19mpg. To me that is very impressive. Especially when a Honda civic that weighs less than a quarter of what my pickup does, has a third of the displacement, and a quarter of the power only gets twice the milage.

Hey, I'll bet I can get almost as much stuff into my Civic as you can get into the back of your pickup. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've seen her Civic - don't bet with her!