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Quick release pins #126638
12/20/07 01:35 AM
12/20/07 01:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
AzCat Offline OP
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AzCat  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Arizona
Does anyone ouy there use a quick release pin for the forestay attachment to the bridle? Seems a little risky,but Im trying to save on breakdown and setup time.
I added a jib furler also and am thinking of using one for attaching the tack of the jib.


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Quick release pins [Re: AzCat] #126639
12/20/07 06:11 AM
12/20/07 06:11 AM

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Anonymous
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Oh I had one. And I can confirm that when it says quick-release, it means quick-release. As in powering up to the start line, coming ready or not, we're taking this mast down now!

I no longer have a quick-release fitting on my forestay. And I always tape the pins in all my stays before I leave the beach.

Re: Quick release pins [Re: AzCat] #126640
12/20/07 06:21 AM
12/20/07 06:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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If you have the new Ronstan chain plates the quick release pins are fine. They have a second pin at the top that retains the swage in the chain plate if the primary pin comes out.

They won't make rigging and de-rigging any faster though. They are only really useful on dinghies if you want to change stay settings quickly on the water between races or while training.

A systematic approach to the task is what makes rigging and de-rigging faster.

Re: Quick release pins [Re: ncik] #126641
12/20/07 09:19 AM
12/20/07 09:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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Leave the quick pins out of your standing rigging. It's like leaving a grenade in a classroom full of 5 year olds. Eventualy someone will pull the pin. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Lee Wicklund/ Team Chums


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Quick release pins [Re: TeamChums] #126642
12/20/07 09:28 AM
12/20/07 09:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
been there, done that. Had a new crew helping me disassemble my old 5.2. I was working on the rudders as he was struggling with something up on the bow. Suddenly I heard a wooshing sound and a simultaneously muttered "uh oh" from up front. I dove out of the way as the mast came crashing down. Fortunately no damage.

Of course, a pin and ring may not cure you from this possibility.


Jake Kohl
Re: Quick release pins [Re: AzCat] #126643
12/20/07 09:55 AM
12/20/07 09:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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Wrinklie (since he's always by himself and has to solicit help) uses quick pins and after stepping puts in pins w/ring dings. Of course this will be harder to do with a single forestay.

To me a couple of minutes more is worth the peace of mind. We have no quick pins on the boat we race. Now our 16 play boat has quick pins for the forestay, blocks, tiller. I try to remember to release tension on the forestay and tug on the bridle quick pin to make sure that it's secure.


John H16, H14
Re: Quick release pins [Re: _flatlander_] #126644
12/20/07 10:17 AM
12/20/07 10:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 124
offshore
peter_nelson Offline
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Quote
A systematic approach to the task is what makes rigging and de-rigging faster.


Amen to that! I have a H-16. Admittedly, an easy boat to assemble. But I have it set up so you pull one or two strings and it goes up like a self-inflating blow-up doll! Hey, a blow-up doll! I better add that to my Christmas list!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Time Warp Racing
Hobie 14, 16, & 17, Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2
Re: Quick release pins [Re: _flatlander_] #126645
12/20/07 10:19 AM
12/20/07 10:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Quick pins have been known to fail, although it is rare, total reliance on them should be avoided.

This may not apply on your boat, but on my Hobie 16, I use a quick pin for the forestay, and a solid pin and ring for the jib (which becomes the forestay when rigged). Once the jib is up, I remove the quick pin from the (now) slack forestay and replace it with a solid pin and ring. When it's time to take the mast down, I switch back to the quick pin before taking down the jib.

The other option I have seen used by a top sailor is to double up on the quick pins. As long as your wires have large enough loops (thimbles?), you can fit two pins in there (you will need to insert them from opposite sides of the chain plate, since the heads are so large). This is especially helpful for side stays, since it allows you to adjust mast rake by "walking" the pins up and down the chain plates (remove one at a time and leapfrog it past the other).

Hope this helps, not the easiest thing to describe in text...

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 12/20/07 10:21 AM.
Re: Quick release pins [Re: brucat] #126646
12/20/07 10:29 AM
12/20/07 10:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Quick pins don't usually fail, but they can easily get snagged on something and pull out, so be sure to tape them after you install them. Same goes for the standard ring-dings. I can't recall how many times I've had them snag my PFD and either rip clothes or pull straight and fall out. Now I tape everything.

Sure, it takes nearly a whole roll of $1.39 electrical tape and maybe 5 minutes, but it's worth it to not have things fall apart. Tape your knots too, especially the ones on the spinnaker pole! You know what happens when they come undone! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
Re: Quick release pins [Re: Timbo] #126647
12/20/07 11:19 AM
12/20/07 11:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
I've used a quick pin on my Hobie 16 forestay forever and have never had any problems. Then again, it's not under any load when sailing.

I've also used two quick pins on my Hobie 17 bridle where they attach to the hull. Again, no problems. However, in a major event, where a surprise could be really bad thing - I use standard solid pins. Same with really heavy weather.

Re: Quick release pins [Re: mbounds] #126648
12/20/07 01:33 PM
12/20/07 01:33 PM
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brucat Offline
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Oh yes, forgot about the tape. Extremely important. I tape all my rings too, even if they're under the shroud covers, as they are known to ride up when you're going really fast through the water, especially if flying a hull. It's ridiculous how many people don't tape their rings, and the rings are all distorted from being snagged. Maybe that helps to keep them from coming out, but I doubt it...

I've never seen a quick pin break, but have heard of it happening. That's why I said it's rare, but not unheard of. The one thing I have noticed is that as they get older, they tend to stick, and can stick "open" which would allow them to slide back out. I think this is because something in the guts starts corroding, especially if you sail in salt water often. Rinsing in fresh water might help, but I just replace them every few years (usually when I upgrade to the next brand new boat).

Mike

Re: Quick release pins [Re: Jake] #126649
12/20/07 01:36 PM
12/20/07 01:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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Orlando, FL
Quote
Suddenly I heard a wooshing sound and a simultaneously muttered "uh oh" from up front. I dove out of the way as the mast came crashing down.


This has to be one of my all time favorite Catsailor quotes!

"uh oh"


USA 777
Re: Quick release pins [Re: tback] #126650
12/20/07 02:45 PM
12/20/07 02:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Brian_Mc Offline
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I use toggle pins for forstay, and one shroud. I do make a point of taping, as I once pulled the boat up on Cuutyhunk, only to find one shroud pin was barely holding by the toggle itself!

Re: Quick release pins [Re: Brian_Mc] #126651
12/20/07 02:55 PM
12/20/07 02:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
pbisesi Offline
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pbisesi  Offline
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Syracuse,N.Y
The problem with quick release pins is that they do. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
Re: Quick release pins [Re: pbisesi] #126652
12/20/07 05:39 PM
12/20/07 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 160
North Carolina
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abbman Offline
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North Carolina
I sail a 16 and use some quick release pins as well, however not for the forestay or shrouds, but after reading these posts I think it does make more sense to use on the forestay that the jib tack plate, which is where one of them goes. I also use them to connect the tiller, and lower block to the traveler. I use a snap shackle to connect the upper block to the boom.


James
1983 Hobie 16'
Re: Quick release pins [Re: abbman] #126653
12/20/07 07:16 PM
12/20/07 07:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline
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Santa Cruz, CA
Here are a few mast failure stats from my microcosm here on the central coast:

We encounter about 3 boats a year that have been dismasted due to anchor pins breaking (Most common source of rig failure).

We encounter about 2 boats a year that have a catastrophic rig failure due to quick pins unexpectedly parting (Always a shroud). We see another 2 boats from wire breaking at the interface with a rollerswage (Always check for cracks and replace at factory prescribed intervals).

We encounter about 1 boat a year with rig failure from people that make their own rigging at big box marine and the swage pulls out.

And usually every other year we will encounter a mast extrusion breaking.(Carbon masts are not included in this data)

About every 2 to 3 years a ring will pull out of the pin and someone will loose a rig.

There are a few other uncommon reasons people loose masts in the miscelaneous category:

Installed furler upside down (TheMightyHobie18). Dropped mast after loosing control of it in the parking lot (actually quite common), etc.

Moral of the story: Don't use quick pins for standing rig, change your anchor pins/ inspect chainplates, get new wires every now and then, and hang on to your rig when you're raising it.<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hope that helps.

Re: Quick release pins [Re: SurfCityRacing] #126654
12/20/07 10:48 PM
12/20/07 10:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Don't forget the dis-masting of H14's with the loose rig and not having the mast ties down to the dolphin striker.

Re: Quick release pins [Re: Karl_Brogger] #126655
12/20/07 11:43 PM
12/20/07 11:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 124
offshore
peter_nelson Offline
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Posts: 124
offshore
Yeah, Karl, what's up with that? I saw pictures of the guys sailing their boats at this year's 14 NAs, and it looked more like a rodeo than a regatta! I mean, they had that mast lassoed to the dolphin striker with about 8 wraps! It was something incredible. I don't get it.

Are they sailing the rig so loose that the mast pops off the base? Why is the rig that loose?


Time Warp Racing
Hobie 14, 16, & 17, Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2
Re: Quick release pins [Re: peter_nelson] #126656
12/21/07 06:54 AM
12/21/07 06:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
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Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Quote
Are they sailing the rig so loose that the mast pops off the base?
In a capsize, yes - the rig is loose enough so that the mast can come off the step.

Quote
Why is the rig that loose?
Because it's fast. In heavy air, you want to rake back a lot, just like a 16. On a 14, though, you go dead downwind (no tacking) so you want the mast to stand up. That's why we have those lines tied to the bridle - you pull in on that line to stand the mast up.

They are strange little boats.

Just for the record, Karl, my mast fell down becuae the bridle bolt pulled out of the hull. The halyard lashings kept the mast on the step until it was nearly horizontal.

Re: Quick release pins [Re: mbounds] #126657
12/21/07 07:37 AM
12/21/07 07:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
I wasn't saying anything specific about your boat Matt. Happens all the time in heavy air. Some don't do a good job tying down the mast, others do, but it can still come out.

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