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Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results #129384
01/21/08 06:03 PM
01/21/08 06:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Finally got it all posted.., go to the Headline/Welcome Page at www.catsailor.com or click on the Logo in the upper left corner.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: RickWhite] #129385
01/21/08 07:31 PM
01/21/08 07:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 334
Thunder Bay ON CAN
M
mmadge Offline
enthusiast
mmadge  Offline
enthusiast
M

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 334
Thunder Bay ON CAN
Nice Photos,I am envious.Mean while -28C here in balmy Thunder Bay.

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: mmadge] #129386
01/22/08 12:19 PM
01/22/08 12:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Did you really run some triangle courses? A 'B' mark?

Around here, that mark is extinct. It's been extinct for years. My N6.0na loved reaching to 'B'.


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Todd_Sails] #129387
01/22/08 12:21 PM
01/22/08 12:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Quote
Did you really run some triangle courses? A 'B' mark?

Around here, that mark is extinct. It's been extinct for years. My N6.0na loved reaching to 'B'.


I think Rick digs them.

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Todd_Sails] #129388
01/22/08 12:22 PM
01/22/08 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
The B mark was more of an offset mark to keep the spinnaker boats away from the inside H16/Wave course, it was too high to fly the kite and it was a deep run from there to C which usually required a gybe. Second and third laps were from C to A and back only, no B.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Timbo] #129389
01/22/08 02:05 PM
01/22/08 02:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
Quote
The B mark was more of an offset mark


1/2 mi away


USA 777
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: tback] #129390
01/22/08 04:50 PM
01/22/08 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Yes, but it went by so quickly! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Attached Files
Last edited by Timbo; 01/22/08 04:51 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Timbo] #129391
01/22/08 09:08 PM
01/22/08 09:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
A dorito and two hot dogs.
A B C
A C
A C

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: arbo06] #129392
01/24/08 02:31 PM
01/24/08 02:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
You have the theory correct. We start the fast boats first on the outer course, then the slower boats on the inside course.
The first reach get the big, hairy spin boats off to the side the first time around, allowing the small boats a fresh course.
By the way, W/Ls came about mostly because of the use of spinnakers. There are lots of boats without spins that love reaches. Nothing old fashioned about that.
And the Waves hate downwind legs, thus the adopted course for the Wave Class is triangle, windward, leeward -- give the boats two upwinds, two reaches and one downnwind.
Hope this doesn't make me old fashioned. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Seems to me I got the same **** from Matt Bounds last year.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: RickWhite] #129393
01/24/08 03:16 PM
01/24/08 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
DISCLAIMER: These comments are directed at the reach/no reach debate overall, not a specific person or event...

In my experience, reaches started going the way of the dodo several years ago, mainly because they were considered to be "non-strategical." In other words, reaching legs tend to be follow-the-leader. The only way boats can pass one another is by better boathandling, and the assumption is, everyone at a championship is excellent at boathandling. Note the word "assumption." <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Spinnakers have been around for much longer than this mindset, so I don't attribute that as the cause.

The other consideration about reaches is that they require additional safety and mark boats. You have a mark at a different place on the water, so making a change in response to a wind shift will require another mark boat. Competitors are far more likely to capsize on a reach, so you need more safety boats.

Personally, I agree with this idea for major events, but we all sail cats because we like to go fast, and reaching is the fastest point of sail. I feel pretty strongly that reaches should be used at all normal (non-championship) regattas, especially if the sailors want them.

Which is another thing that can't be understated, a good PRO really needs to listen to the OA and fleet reps to be sure he is providing the racing they desire, not the racing he prefers to provide. Sometimes, this is hard to watch, for example, I have no idea why big mono sailors want to race two or three races per day and throw away several hours of beautiful wind and racing conditions. But, as their PRO, I'm not going to start a fourth race just because that's what I'd want as a sailor. That's how you don't get invited back (on a good day), or get ripped apart on an open forum... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 01/24/08 03:22 PM.
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: brucat] #129394
01/24/08 04:28 PM
01/24/08 04:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
For some additional detail about the reaching leg at Tradewinds, checkout the photo sequence posted this morning at www.teamseacats.com We sure passed a lot of boats on the reach!


Jake Kohl
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Jake] #129395
01/24/08 04:33 PM
01/24/08 04:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Nice! Like I said... "better boathandling..." <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mike

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: brucat] #129396
01/24/08 05:10 PM
01/24/08 05:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
But how do you learn that "boat-handling" on a reach if you never get to do reaches in a racing situation?

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Mary] #129397
01/24/08 05:13 PM
01/24/08 05:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
If you want to read a great story, go to the CABB forum and read "Tradewinds, the rescue."

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Mary] #129398
01/24/08 05:50 PM
01/24/08 05:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
See my prior message Mary, I'm in favor of reaches.

Devil's advocate: if you're never going to see a reach in a race, why would you care?

Mike

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: brucat] #129399
01/24/08 05:57 PM
01/24/08 05:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
Devil's advocate: if you're never going to see a reach in a race, why would you care?

Because someday the devil might be chasing you and you are going to need to go like hell to avoid ending up there. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: Mary] #129400
01/24/08 06:06 PM
01/24/08 06:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Well, I'm not usually ahead anyway, so there's little chance of that... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: brucat] #129401
01/24/08 06:11 PM
01/24/08 06:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Windshifts happen...


Trey
Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: brucat] #129402
01/24/08 06:17 PM
01/24/08 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Quote
Seems to me I got the same **** from Matt Bounds last year.


Hey, I resemble that remark! (Actually, it was two years ago.)

I don't have anything against reaches either, it's just that one time I was at Tradewinds (2005, the last year at Gilbert's) it felt like a time warp. Old starting sequences, old courses. NTTAWWT <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I like reaches . . . when I'm ahead. Nothing better for stretching out the fleet.

Re: Tradewinds Story, Pix and Results [Re: NCSUtrey] #129403
01/24/08 06:19 PM
01/24/08 06:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 80
West Virginia
Soapysails Offline
journeyman
Soapysails  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 80
West Virginia
I like 'em ! its all about balance.

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