| New Bimare V1 A-class #131247 02/10/08 12:19 PM 02/10/08 12:19 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 75 Ljubljana, Slovenia mayhem OP
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Posts: 75 Ljubljana, Slovenia | I just saw that Bimare came out with a new A-class boat called the XJ-V1. http://www.bimare.net/17/main.htmI have not seen too much talk about it yet. Here is what I could find and some of my thoughts to start a discussion: A Scandinavian website (not written in English so I am guessing) suggests the boat should cost just over 16K Euro (Take away VAT and convert to USD at it is just short of $20K USD before shipping). That puts it right in the range of a Melvin A3 or FlyerII versions-- both boats with strong, recent proven credentials. The old XJ showed that it was far from obsolete at the Worlds, but the V1 changes look more than just minor evolutions like we saw on the other two. I remember a story about the worlds reporting that Peter Cogan was to sail "an evolution of the Bim XJ"-- was this a V1 prototype? If not, why was it not at the worlds? My first impression is that the V1 looks to have severe wave piercing comparable to few boats other than the LR2. While there was a lot of expectations around the LR2's radical design being far superior;however, results at the World Championship were inconclusive and likely more hours on the water will be needed before we can say this for sure about the LR2. What do we know about the V1? Normally someone proves that a boat works before they start full promotion and production, but this seems not to be the case-- I saw that the British distributor is already taking delivery of 4 V1s. (eg, the Bim2000 straight bow is generally considered faster than the first waving piecing 2001 Javalins; but the follow-on XJ and AJ were finally faster wave piercers than the straight bow Bim200s) Is Bimare pushing the V1 based on computer predictions alone? Bimare has a great production facility, might they try to get market with an attractive price and credible boat like they did earlier in the decade? Did I get this all wrong, and it is really just a minor optimization that I am exaggerating all out of proportions? | | | Re: New Bimare V1 A-class
[Re: mayhem]
#131250 02/10/08 07:56 PM 02/10/08 07:56 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Posts: 291 | I noticed this boat has no dolphin striker, has this a new idea or have I been living in a cave?
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: New Bimare V1 A-class
[Re: JACKFLASH]
#131251 02/10/08 09:53 PM 02/10/08 09:53 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I noticed this boat has no dolphin striker, has this a new idea or have I been living in a cave? Cave. Many A-cats are going this route.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: New Bimare V1 A-class
[Re: Jake]
#131252 02/10/08 09:58 PM 02/10/08 09:58 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Posts: 291 | I noticed this boat has no dolphin striker, has this a new idea or have I been living in a cave? Cave. Many A-cats are going this route. I see the light...I am walking toward the light
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: No dolphin striker???
[Re: DHO]
#131255 02/11/08 04:06 PM 02/11/08 04:06 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Posts: 291 | I doubt that a Hobie could but most A cats have carbon beams. What is the beam on that ARC 21 made of?
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: No dolphin striker???
[Re: DHO]
#131256 02/11/08 06:07 PM 02/11/08 06:07 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Is this possible? Can the main beam handle the compression load?
D. Ho TheMightyHobie18 1067 Most A's have acarbon beams that have thick walls, I think on reason the A's have moved away from strikers is because the front beam is fairly close to the water and so a Striker drags more than on other boats. Some Alu beams have a Z bar inside then so negating the nead for a Dolphin striker.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: No dolphin striker???
[Re: scooby_simon]
#131257 02/11/08 06:24 PM 02/11/08 06:24 PM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland Dermot
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Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland | The Spitfire does not have a dolphin striker - just quite a large main beam.
Dermot Catapult 265
| | | Re: No dolphin striker???
[Re: Dermot]
#131258 02/11/08 06:42 PM 02/11/08 06:42 PM |
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 291 JACKFLASH
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Posts: 291 | The weight savings is obvious when using carbon fibre and getting rid of that stainless dolphin striker, but I wonder if the weight savings are realized when using a larger aluminum beam or one with the z braces built into it.
Collin Casey Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
| | | Re: No dolphin striker???
[Re: sbflyer]
#131261 02/11/08 11:30 PM 02/11/08 11:30 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 364 Andrew
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Posts: 364 | I don't think it's so much about weight as it is water drag... The A-class has a mandatory minimum weight, and the main beam is at the balance point so ideal for adding necessary weight to make weight.
Andrew Tatton
Nacra 20 "Wiggle Stick" #266
Nacra 18 Square #12
| | | Re: No dolphin striker???
[Re: JACKFLASH]
#131262 02/13/08 06:37 AM 02/13/08 06:37 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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A few inserts of science.
-1- a Z-insert does as good as nothing to increase beam strength or stiffness and as such does not replace a dolphinstriker.
-2- A carbon beam without a dolphinstriker has much thicker walls on top and on the bottom (=additional cloth and resin used), as a result the weight savings are pretty small.
-3- A larger diameter alu beam or one with a thicker wall is also sufficient to be able to replace the dolphinstriker.
-4- Removing the dolphinstriker has drawbacks. The mainbeam will never be as stiff as the beam with a dolphin striker of the same overall weight. Flexing of the mainbeam (downwards) is the cause of the mainsail leach being less stable and tight. When sheeting, the leech response becomes "springy" This is one reason why a number of A-cats are still using dolphinstrikers.
-5- The drawbacks of a dolphinstrikerless beam increase disproportionally with increased boat width. The A-cat is a narrow boat and can get away with it without accepting to large negative effects. Wider boats will quickly end up with all of the drawbacks and a beam setup that is significantly heavier then even a plain alu-stainless steel dolphin striker setup. That is why wider all-carbon boats like the M20 and Volvo Extreme 20 have dolphinstrikers, although these are also made of carbon.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: New Bimare V1 A-class
[Re: bvining]
#131265 02/18/08 04:46 AM 02/18/08 04:46 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 285 Catfan
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Posts: 285 | Bill
as Pieterjan wrote the new BIMARE V1 A-class, with regard to the design, is a further development of the XJ, a boat widely appreciated as one of the best all around shapes for the whole range of winds. Expecially downwind in heavy conditions it can be pushed harder than most without worry of going over. From the design side: 1) the V1 hull has a round deck in order to reduce wind-wave drag and to reduce the pictchpoling tendency (a tribute to Bill Roberts' philosophy); 2) both beams are 5 cm higher on the sea level (more clearance from waves), 3) the hull has less (around 7 mm) rocker aft and slightly flatter stern. But the field where the V1 shows a "REAL" advantage over the XJ is stiffness: the V1 platform (measured with the Phill Brander's method) is roughly 3 times stiffer than the one of the XJ (in other terms the flexure is a third). This result is achieved thanks to: 1) new larger beams - 95 mm instead of 80 mm - glued on demand; 2) unidirectional carbon tapes added between the beams. The front beam is Kg 3,600 (about Kg 0,4 more that the old one fitted with the dolphin striker) the rear beam is Kg 2,500 (about Kg 0,3 more). The new larger beams are quite a lot stiffer than the old ones in torsion and significantly stiffer in flexure. It goes without saying that, due to the lack of the dolphin striker, the front beam flexes a bit (however about half of the amount measured on other strikerless front beams for A cats). In order to counteract this flexure, BIMARE developed a system to have the front beam coming out of the mould with a prebent of 8-9 mm. The new BIMARE V1 is on sale in three different versions: a) the cheap AJ –V1 (glass vinylester); b) the standard XJ-V1 (carbon-vinylester) c) the RACE V1 (carbon-epoxy). | | |
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