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New Bimare V1 A-class #131247
02/10/08 12:19 PM
02/10/08 12:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
Ljubljana, Slovenia
mayhem Offline OP
journeyman
mayhem  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 75
Ljubljana, Slovenia
I just saw that Bimare came out with a new A-class boat called the XJ-V1. http://www.bimare.net/17/main.htm
I have not seen too much talk about it yet.


Here is what I could find and some of my thoughts to start a discussion:

A Scandinavian website (not written in English so I am guessing) suggests the boat should cost just over 16K Euro (Take away VAT and convert to USD at it is just short of $20K USD before shipping). That puts it right in the range of a Melvin A3 or FlyerII versions-- both boats with strong, recent proven credentials. The old XJ showed that it was far from obsolete at the Worlds, but the V1 changes look more than just minor evolutions like we saw on the other two.

I remember a story about the worlds reporting that Peter Cogan was to sail "an evolution of the Bim XJ"-- was this a V1 prototype? If not, why was it not at the worlds?

My first impression is that the V1 looks to have severe wave piercing comparable to few boats other than the LR2. While there was a lot of expectations around the LR2's radical design being far superior;however, results at the World Championship were inconclusive and likely more hours on the water will be needed before we can say this for sure about the LR2. What do we know about the V1?

Normally someone proves that a boat works before they start full promotion and production, but this seems not to be the case-- I saw that the British distributor is already taking delivery of 4 V1s. (eg, the Bim2000 straight bow is generally considered faster than the first waving piecing 2001 Javalins; but the follow-on XJ and AJ were finally faster wave piercers than the straight bow Bim200s)

Is Bimare pushing the V1 based on computer predictions alone? Bimare has a great production facility, might they try to get market with an attractive price and credible boat like they did earlier in the decade? Did I get this all wrong, and it is really just a minor optimization that I am exaggerating all out of proportions?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: mayhem] #131248
02/10/08 12:38 PM
02/10/08 12:38 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Danish reseller quites EUR16110 including beach wheels and covers for the foils. Ref: http://www.bimare.dk/bimare/showsimpleadd.asp?TOPIC_ID=130

Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: mayhem] #131249
02/10/08 04:43 PM
02/10/08 04:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
addict
Smiths_Cat  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
It is maybe a clever marketing strategy: Have a boat with the newest trend after the worlds, then you have all the hype about it, but not the risk of a medium result, which proves nothing else than that it is not the absolute superior design.
Nothing against the new design, just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: mayhem] #131250
02/10/08 07:56 PM
02/10/08 07:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
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J

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Posts: 291
I noticed this boat has no dolphin striker, has this a new idea or have I been living in a cave?


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: JACKFLASH] #131251
02/10/08 09:53 PM
02/10/08 09:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
I noticed this boat has no dolphin striker, has this a new idea or have I been living in a cave?


Cave. Many A-cats are going this route.


Jake Kohl
Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: Jake] #131252
02/10/08 09:58 PM
02/10/08 09:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
Quote
Quote
I noticed this boat has no dolphin striker, has this a new idea or have I been living in a cave?


Cave. Many A-cats are going this route.


I see the light...I am walking toward the light


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: JACKFLASH] #131253
02/11/08 06:45 AM
02/11/08 06:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
My ARC 21 is strikerless as well.

Attached Files
132901-DCP_0277.jpg (111 downloads)
No dolphin striker??? [Re: arbo06] #131254
02/11/08 03:51 PM
02/11/08 03:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 208
D
DHO Offline
enthusiast
DHO  Offline
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D

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 208
Is this possible? Can the main beam handle the compression load?

D. Ho
TheMightyHobie18 1067

Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: DHO] #131255
02/11/08 04:06 PM
02/11/08 04:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
I doubt that a Hobie could but most A cats have carbon beams. What is the beam on that ARC 21 made of?


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: DHO] #131256
02/11/08 06:07 PM
02/11/08 06:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
Is this possible? Can the main beam handle the compression load?

D. Ho
TheMightyHobie18 1067


Most A's have acarbon beams that have thick walls, I think on reason the A's have moved away from strikers is because the front beam is fairly close to the water and so a Striker drags more than on other boats.

Some Alu beams have a Z bar inside then so negating the nead for a Dolphin striker.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: scooby_simon] #131257
02/11/08 06:24 PM
02/11/08 06:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 912
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 912
Dublin, Ireland
The Spitfire does not have a dolphin striker - just quite a large main beam.


Dermot
Catapult 265
www.catamaran.ie
Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: Dermot] #131258
02/11/08 06:42 PM
02/11/08 06:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
The weight savings is obvious when using carbon fibre and getting rid of that stainless dolphin striker, but I wonder if the weight savings are realized when using a larger aluminum beam or one with the z braces built into it.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: Dermot] #131259
02/11/08 06:46 PM
02/11/08 06:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
The Spitfire does not have a dolphin striker - just quite a large main beam.


Which IIRC has a Z beam inside it.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: scooby_simon] #131260
02/11/08 09:20 PM
02/11/08 09:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Santa Barbara CA
sbflyer Offline
member
sbflyer  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Santa Barbara CA
I don't think it's so much about weight as it is water drag...

Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: sbflyer] #131261
02/11/08 11:30 PM
02/11/08 11:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 364
Andrew Offline
enthusiast
Andrew  Offline
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Posts: 364
Quote
I don't think it's so much about weight as it is water drag...


The A-class has a mandatory minimum weight, and the main beam is at the balance point so ideal for adding necessary weight to make weight.


Andrew Tatton Nacra 20 "Wiggle Stick" #266 Nacra 18 Square #12
Re: No dolphin striker??? [Re: JACKFLASH] #131262
02/13/08 06:37 AM
02/13/08 06:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


A few inserts of science.

-1- a Z-insert does as good as nothing to increase beam strength or stiffness and as such does not replace a dolphinstriker.

-2- A carbon beam without a dolphinstriker has much thicker walls on top and on the bottom (=additional cloth and resin used), as a result the weight savings are pretty small.

-3- A larger diameter alu beam or one with a thicker wall is also sufficient to be able to replace the dolphinstriker.

-4- Removing the dolphinstriker has drawbacks. The mainbeam will never be as stiff as the beam with a dolphin striker of the same overall weight. Flexing of the mainbeam (downwards) is the cause of the mainsail leach being less stable and tight. When sheeting, the leech response becomes "springy" This is one reason why a number of A-cats are still using dolphinstrikers.

-5- The drawbacks of a dolphinstrikerless beam increase disproportionally with increased boat width. The A-cat is a narrow boat and can get away with it without accepting to large negative effects. Wider boats will quickly end up with all of the drawbacks and a beam setup that is significantly heavier then even a plain alu-stainless steel dolphin striker setup. That is why wider all-carbon boats like the M20 and Volvo Extreme 20 have dolphinstrikers, although these are also made of carbon.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: mayhem] #131263
02/13/08 11:29 AM
02/13/08 11:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
veteran

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
Nobody answered the design question.

Catfan can you enlighten us?


Bill

Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: bvining] #131264
02/17/08 04:23 PM
02/17/08 04:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 17
Holland
pieterjanned28 Offline
stranger
pieterjanned28  Offline
stranger

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 17
Holland
The new V1 is anfurther development of the xj
just small alterations,moving more tot the flyer direction
will be a good boat. lalo and valerio know what tey are doing' Roberto Casadei, italian top sailor is involved.
The main beam is highmod carbon reinforced.
the flex in carbon striker less beam is tested against beam with striker : same bending stiffness !

The carbon beam is 3,7 kgs , the strikerless beam is normally around 2,2 + 0,8 for a striker.
When the striker is a tiny 5 mm rod like he Flyers mk1 , the stiffness of that beam is not that great....


We will see how the V1 is going in one month time at the first classic of the euro season: the vele di pasqua, with a expected fleet of 70-80 boats...



pj

Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: bvining] #131265
02/18/08 04:46 AM
02/18/08 04:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
C
Catfan Offline
enthusiast
Catfan  Offline
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C

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
Bill

as Pieterjan wrote the new BIMARE V1 A-class, with regard to the design, is a further development of the XJ, a boat widely appreciated as one of the best all around shapes for the whole range of winds. Expecially downwind in heavy conditions it can be pushed harder than most without worry of going over.
From the design side:
1) the V1 hull has a round deck in order to reduce wind-wave drag and to reduce the pictchpoling tendency (a tribute to Bill Roberts' philosophy);
2) both beams are 5 cm higher on the sea level (more clearance from waves),
3) the hull has less (around 7 mm) rocker aft and slightly flatter stern.
But the field where the V1 shows a "REAL" advantage over the XJ is stiffness:
the V1 platform (measured with the Phill Brander's method) is roughly 3 times stiffer than the one of the XJ (in other terms the flexure is a third). This result is achieved thanks to:
1) new larger beams - 95 mm instead of 80 mm - glued on demand;
2) unidirectional carbon tapes added between the beams.
The front beam is Kg 3,600 (about Kg 0,4 more that the old one fitted with the dolphin striker)
the rear beam is Kg 2,500 (about Kg 0,3 more).
The new larger beams are quite a lot stiffer than the old ones in torsion and significantly stiffer in flexure.
It goes without saying that, due to the lack of the dolphin striker, the front beam flexes a bit (however about half of the amount measured on other strikerless front beams for A cats). In order to counteract this flexure, BIMARE developed a system to have the front beam coming out of the mould with a prebent of 8-9 mm.
The new BIMARE V1 is on sale in three different versions:
a) the cheap AJ V1 (glass vinylester);
b) the standard XJ-V1 (carbon-vinylester)
c) the RACE V1 (carbon-epoxy).

Re: New Bimare V1 A-class [Re: Catfan] #131266
02/20/08 07:27 AM
02/20/08 07:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
C
Catfan Offline
enthusiast
Catfan  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
For the latest V1 photos click on the following link:
http://www.bimare.net/vifoto/


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