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Building a mast #132980
02/24/08 11:23 AM
02/24/08 11:23 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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I have just started to build a new mast for my Mini 650, and after that I will attack the one for the Blade.
So for those interested: http://www.gust.ax/gallery/mast/

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132981
02/24/08 11:48 AM
02/24/08 11:48 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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Exchanged some words with Phill and there is a good possibility to end up around 13,5 kgs for an 8.5 m spar with the same stiffness as a Superwing.
I am happy if I arrive to 15kg

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132982
02/24/08 12:44 PM
02/24/08 12:44 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Document, document, document, please document. All very interesting!

Looks like you used quite a heavy cloth on the inside?

Re: Building a mast [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #132983
02/25/08 03:54 AM
02/25/08 03:54 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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Well, I had been plannig some iceboat sailing, but no ice so I started to build the mast and 300g glass was the only thing at home.
But that is not a problem, the glass is at 45 deg to the woodfibres and there will just be a little bit less on the outside. I also used Spruce instead of WRC for this one for the front part, the reinforcements on the inside will be WRC, and for the F16 spar all wood will be WRC.
the halves together are about 12kg so I am only about half way to target so far (25kg)

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132984
02/27/08 12:50 PM
02/27/08 12:50 PM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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First spar in the bag, hopfully pics tomorrow

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132985
02/27/08 02:44 PM
02/27/08 02:44 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Looking forward to see the pics! Any better weight estimate?

Re: Building a mast [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #132986
02/28/08 02:25 AM
02/28/08 02:25 AM
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Gato Offline OP
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The spar for the Pixie 14 is out of the bag! Profile 124 x 58 length 6.2 m weight 8,8 kgs.
I used no carbon on this one as it was the first try, only BX and UD glass. Material cost less than 100 Euros, about 20 hours of work so far.
If I get it my way, all the fittings on the mast as the spreaders will be done in carbon
and laminated on to the spar.
Phills suggestion for the profile for the Blade mast is 130 x 64 and if I am using the same profile as for this one it would give 135 x 63,5, other ideas?
What about s slight tapering?

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132987
02/28/08 04:25 AM
02/28/08 04:25 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132988
02/28/08 05:32 AM
02/28/08 05:32 AM
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Gato Offline OP
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Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132989
03/01/08 02:36 PM
03/01/08 02:36 PM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Gato,

When you start on the Blade mast you should really post that on the F16 forum; I'm sure you 'll get alot of response there and it is of course an excellent read for all of us !


Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Building a mast [Re: Wouter] #132990
03/03/08 01:59 AM
03/03/08 01:59 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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Thanks Wouter but I think I remain here, there will not be as much discussion, but at least it will stay on topic I hope...

Re: Building a mast [Re: Wouter] #132991
03/04/08 01:28 AM
03/04/08 01:28 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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So no opinions about the profile or the tapering??

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132992
03/04/08 02:23 AM
03/04/08 02:23 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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I would not have gone for a pure wingmast but a more rounded profile. With a wingmast it is critical to get the AoA (angle of attack) adjustment 100% while a rounded profile is more forgiving. But getting the bending properties right would be more important to me than the profile of the mast.
Tapering.. If you want to do it, do it. Just make sure you get the bending properties right up there. Kind of a black art I think as there is so little documented on the topic, but fast if done right. Unless you are pretty certain you get it right, it is probably more work than it is worth.

Re: Building a mast [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #132993
03/04/08 03:31 AM
03/04/08 03:31 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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The wing profile suits this method of building well, a rounder profile would require more solid wood in the front part or a lot narrower strips.
I am not at all sure to get the things right, but normally there will be a lot of good advises once the thing is done...

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132994
03/04/08 03:49 AM
03/04/08 03:49 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Isn't that the way things usually work out <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are stepping into largely uncharted terretories with this project so I think most are waiting eagerly to se what you come up with.

Re: Building a mast [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #132995
03/04/08 05:10 AM
03/04/08 05:10 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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So, maybe it’s better to remain quietly in the workshop and then to go out testing in secret... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132996
03/04/08 06:35 AM
03/04/08 06:35 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Oh, that would be really nasty of you. First wetting our appetite saying what you are doing and then nothing more. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Building a mast [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #132997
03/04/08 08:11 AM
03/04/08 08:11 AM
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Finland
Gato Offline OP
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I think as long as you are doing just the hulls everybody are happy, but as soon as it is a question of other parts for the cats there are too many who are involved in selling them one way or another. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I will publish pics on my blog, and if anybody wants to discuss it will hopefully be here.

Re: Building a mast [Re: Gato] #132998
03/04/08 03:44 PM
03/04/08 03:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 199
Constanta, Romania
isvflorin Offline
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Gato,
The mast homebuilding project is very interesting considering the price of a new mast, and shipping options for it.
I am curious about how are you going to make the mainsail track. I assume you already have that sorted, but how ?


Florin
Re: Building a mast [Re: isvflorin] #132999
03/04/08 03:55 PM
03/04/08 03:55 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Gato and Florian,

J.R. Watson at Gougeon have been building boats with epoxy for a generation soon. I asked him about beams (sorry for going off topic, but it is kind of related and very interesting for homebuilders). Here is his reply:

Quote
The rule generally regarding carbon vs aluminum is that the wall thickness that works for aluminum (say 3mm) will work for carbon – all geometry the same. The Marstrom and Lindahl A-class have carbon beams that are just under 3mm thick. If strip planked you could subtract from that a little. I would especially like to see the beam striped in halves with carbon put on inside, halves then joined then outside carbon applied. I think you could get away with 1mm inside and 1 mm outside with 6mm thick spruce strips. 75% unidirection 25% braid or biaxial or woven for hoop strength. Striped up you could increase geometry toward the center, tapering as you get to the hull (can’t do that with extrusions or pultrusion) but you could with a strip version – especially applicable to the forward beam. In addition to function, it would look cool too. (This was actually done in some of the early C-class by Hubbard and A-class boats like the Loca. The aft beam should be lighter than the forward beam. You could also add to the outside if under built – the way to do it if you’re pushing the envelope.


We are considering it for our boats.. List of to-do's are constantly growing..

Having access to guys like J.R. Phill, Marcus and others and sharing information between us is what forums should be about. Not squabbling and personal agendas.

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