When you are knocked off the boat but still attached to it, the boat does not necessarily stop, and it is possible to be dragged. Here is what happened to Rick in a rather bizarre situation:

He and crew were racing our Hobie 18 in a regatta at Put-in-Bay on Lake Erie. Rick should not have been racing at all, because he was recovering from broken ribs at the time.

As they came into the finish line of one race, he was on the trapeze and he somehow managed to, with his body, hit the swim platform of the committee boat. This resulted in a couple more broken ribs (other side), and it also knocked him off the boat. Still attached to his trapeze wire, he was flipped upside down and was being dragged upside down in the water behind the boat and between the hulls, as the boat headed down the line on a reach, slowed by the "sea anchor," but not stopped.

Thoughts of imminent drowning were going through his mind, because he was not able to get himself right side up. Fortunately, he was close enough to one of the rudders to physically turn it so that the boat would head up into the wind and stop dragging him. Once the boat stopped, he was able to right himself, and his crew helped him back onto the boat.

Because everything happened so fast, his crew did not know what to do to help and did not immediately react by heading the boat up into the wind. Rick was underwater for approximately a minute.

We cannot possibly dream up every conceivable bad thing that could happen on a sailboat and some of the real-life things that happen are things we would never dream of.

(By the way, he is not in the habit of crashing his body into committee boats, but because of his still painful broken ribs from a former injury, he was having to cleat the mainsheet, and apparently it came uncleated at the wrong moment, just as they were finishing. And the fact that it uncleated also allowed the boat to fall off onto a reach.)

Carl,

We had a lengthy thread going some months ago about chicken lines. You mentioned that the system used by Jamie and Brian ties directly to the harness. Is there a reason for not tying in at the top of the dogbone? (Allowing the sailor to release normally in the event of a capsize.)

Happy New Year Kevin ,

Distance ocean racing ,particularly in seas and higher wind strengths is a type of racing most cat sailors actually do not experience ,or seldom experience .Most race in Bays ,-lakes and protected waters. As a result set ups and preferences are dependant on use . Most chicken lines are used to prevent the crew from taking a trip around the bridle wires ,or worse as I saw one team do both get stuck on them by their trap hook after they stuffed a bow at high steed. They were helpless as the boat reversed and continued sailing on its way with the two of them stuck on the bridal wires.Funny site but scary .
After this type of experience most just put a line aft to the stern they can readily clip into .

What ocean coastal sailors experience in larger seas and surf is something different . Been blasted by waves and surf off the back of the boat numerous times . --Remember sailing through Diamond Shoals at Cape Hatteras one year on my back dragging alongside in the water,still hooked into the trap ,but my feet were taken out by huge surf there evan though in footstraps, was still steering the 100 yards or so until we regained control. -Usually a huge group of photographers on the Cape point so must have provided some comic relief to the scene and some interesting photos of how not to round a cape.

The worst was 98 , rounding the Cape before Hatteras , one side of it was gusting up to 30mph winds in 2 ft seas , rounding it we were suddenly in 40 mph wind gusts and 20 ft walls of water from troughs to the tops . Remember watching the younger Aussie team on a H-20 that leg go off the top of one large set and flip over in mid air on the way down . ---whew ,-thats some exteme sailing .-
Illustrating the different requirements of this type of ocean racing though nothing helps in those conditions except the experiences of having been there before .

Anyway the need to be locked into place on the wire both for and aft is needed in those more extreme conditions, it also helps reduce fatigue on those 6 hour spin runs in large confused seas.,-In some conditions slack from the lead line to dogbone would be too much and pull from full weight for and aft would be difficult , or may release or pull the dogbone from the trap hook .
Safety and fatigue factors make this type of lock in position system the best for some , a good knife is a must .
I-honestly have not yet tried the cleat on the harness system ,-used a stern line and a seperate line with a clip that is an optional forward attachment ,-Paid the price a few times last year not having it hooked in , usually on the wire steering with a tiller in one hand and traveler or main in the other so am reliant on the crew to hook it in forward . That is sometimes not possible in those contitions .
Some use adjustable climbers knots with lead on a side stationary line . Some use the safety line and just foot straps .
Working on some new ideas ,-have had a number of harnesses break from metal fatique , that is another factor to consider in the total set up .
Rule one is to remove gadgets and moving parts when possible and make things neat clean functional and as simple reliable and safe as possible .

Looking into a Jav , for some practise on that particular boat which may require a different approach and set up particular to that design .Lower volume hulls ,-more balancing and for and aft movement is required to sail it efficiently , This will be a much more physically demanding -fatigue factor type cat design to sail 1000 miles for all teams-

Gotta start working out again in earnest and hope my old frame holds up through another one this May as well as the boat and set ups for it .
Hapy New Year

Carl,

Thanks for your replay regarding safety lines. Experience such as yours goes a long way in helping me think about the options. Like you, I have found myself washed off the boat and body surfing near the transom while still attached to the trapeze wire. Since I do a lot of my sailing in steep breaking chop (similar to what you probably see a lot of on the Great Lakes), I'm looking for a clean, simple system to keep me and my crew from being thrown either fore or aft. I still haven't found it. I experimented with a setup similar to Jim's, using an adjustable prussik loop on a line running from transom to shroud. The drawback was having loops and biners trailing in the water off the leeward hull. I've seen the setups that retract into the rear beam, but they only work in one direction (preventing the trip around the forestay).

The ideal solution must be out there. And, you're right, it has to be utterly clean and simple. The words of Antoine de St. Exupéry sum up the goal very well.

[color:"#666666"]"In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away..."[/color]

Kevin,

Perhaps you can use this system (with the prussik loop) as a replacement for your bunji that holds the dogbone captive? Leave the carabiners attached to the dogbones all the time so they don't drag in the water.

Hi Jake,
I have tried the sliding knot setup and it works quite well. However, keeping it attached all the time just does not work for me. When I am not on the wire the chicken line gets tangled behind my back and its a pain. One alternative might be to give the main to to the crew while helm gets out on the wire and clips the chicken line on the dogbone.
Dave

Jake,

I tried putting the biner at the top of the trap hook up ring (I use the "Can't Miss" rings). Only problem there was that it added to the danger faced (literally ) by my crew if I carelessly let go of the ring when unhooking.

I am not replying to anybody in particular, just wanted to say that I am getting lost in this discussion. I don't know whether y'all are talking about chicken lines or tether lines or whether some of you are using the two interchangeably, or what. I thought they were two entirely different things for two different purposes.

I gather that one is to prevent you from being thrown forward or backward and keep you planted firmly on the boat. The other is to keep you attached to the boat by a line of some kind if you become separated from the boat. Are some people using both devices, or using one or the other, or are you trying to come up with one thing that works for both purposes?

Anyway, can somebody clear up the terminology for me as to what you are calling each? And, also, in each post when you are describing some system like this, preface it by saying which you are talking about?

Also, I cannot imagine a tether line being connected with any part of the trapeze system, since every component of the trapeze system, from where the wire attaches to the mast down to the hook on the harness, is subject to potential failure and is a common cause of people becoming separated from the boat. It seems like a tether line would have to attach to something that is not a part of that whole system. So when a tether line is used, what do you attach it to on your person? I know you clip it to something on you, but WHAT?

Mary (and Carl),

While we started talking about tethers, the discussion has migrated toward chicken lines. What Carl is describing sounds like a combination of the two - a chicken line that keeps the sailor attached to the boat. Am I right, Carl? (From your description, it sounds like a line between the transom and the front crossbeam that the sailor attaches to his/her harness.)

Mary,

I was referring to chicken lines but I would also be interested in what a tether get's attached to on the catamaran. Are you guys running a line in the middle of the tramp between the fore and aft beams and attaching the tether to that?

I was asking what the tether is attached to on their body, not the boat.

Jake,

The tethers I've seen have been attached to the hiking straps. For the Worrell, it would likely be tied to the starboard side hiking strap. By using shock corded tethers (shock cord running down the center of tubular webbing) the sudden loading is reduced and wouldn't put too much stress on the strap/tramp in the event that a sailor goes over.

Mary,

Only a guess, but I would suspect that sailors using a full trapeze harness would tie in to that. Jim, how do you tie in on your Lexis Nexis setup?

Hi- Kevin -Mary &Jake thanks for the pics

Funny ,-we carry a safety line per W-1000 rules ,but I,ve never used it except to right the boat .

The chicken line will serve that purpose along with staying clipped into the trap line at ALL TIMES .
i've broken 3 M M harnesses and would not clip both into the hook , but straps or the cleat idea mounted on the spreader bar which does not break . If the trap breaks the chicken line keeps you with the boat .

Testing the boat before the start last year in Miami I had one trap line break and drop me in ,--kindof embarasing ,--got back aboard ,tacked and popped out and the other broke .
rough day , good for some laughs on the beach though,

We did loose a mast once ,-that was tough being on the wire one second and swimming the next .
There is no failsafe system sailing ,you have to maintain and check everything , make sure things work , and use the set up that works for you .

Carl

I'm reasonably new to catamaran racing, but have been a singlehanding woman w/physical limitations for about 18 years now on monohulls. I have considered a lot of the issues discussed in this thread, and would like to comment on a few of them.

Let's see. First strength issues... I have fibromyalgia, and while I'm pretty strong, there's no way I could pull my 190 lb husband out of the water without assistance. So I got to thinking... What I would do on a monohull would be to circle back and round the boat up upwind of the POB so I can drift down close, (release the main sail?) let out the mainsheet, clip my boomvang upside down as far outboard as possible on the boom and let out enough line to reach the POB. If possible, I'd lead the line to one of my winches if the angle is right and haul away. This could be adapted to the Hobie, but without the winch. I'm gonna grab the boomvang off the 31 and play with this. It's similar to the modified mainsheet systems found on some cats (one system of blocks on the boom instead of three). I'd put it upside down so I had the free line (and cleat) facing me. This would work as long as the crew could assist minimally (catch the clip and clip in). I might have to attach additional line to the clip with a weighted ball to make throwing over a distance easier. Will this work? Tell you what -- when the water gets a little warmer, we'll test it out. I'm a firm believer in having whatever gear is necessary on board to take care of reasonably-expected emergencies. The challenge on an 18-foot cat is of course storage space and weight. But the boomvang could be used for so many other things (we could have used it the other day doing wing-on wing with the main and hooter in almost no wind). Backup main sheet system?

Tethers -- I ALWAYS wear a tether at night offshore. And rig jacklines. On a cat, maybe I'd run a jackline up the middle of the boat (threaded through the tramp lacing?) rather than clipping to any particular part of the boat. I'd prefer to keep the attachment point as close to the middle of the boat as possible to avoid entanglements. You can buy light harnesses made of webbing which attach to the tether. The one I use has an integrated self-inflating PFD, but as wet as you get on a cat, this probably wouldn't be a good idea. I'll have to look and see if they have any conventional PFDs with built-in tether connections, though I don't recall seeing them.

Never used chicken lines, but I can see how they could be useful. But with both the chicken lines and tether, I can also see how they might end up adding to your injury. Or trap you in a bad position till you can disentangle. Since there's no way of knowing in advance how you'll fare in a particular spill, I'd opt for the safety features and hope they actually helped...

The swimming thing -- I was crewing in a distance race in November, where we flipped just before the finish. I unclipped and jumped in, and chased the dry box with the captain's cell phone. The boat drifted away from me so fast I couldn't catch it. The captain got in the water and tried to slow it down, which allowed me to catch it. He wasn't much heavier than me, so there's no way he could have righted it himself and gotten back to me. I wasn't concerned for my safety -- the river wasn't very wide, and I could get in easily. But we were in third place, and I REALLY wanted to finish!

I think what I'm trying to say is that you should spend a lot of time on the 'what ifs' and test your theories BEFORE you get out there. I personally think I can do just about anything with the proper preparation, but I know my limits. Everyone has them, so before you start eliminating people on specific qualifications, give some consideration to how they might compensate. In short, don't write anyone off!

See you out there,
Shambie

Shambie, thanks for all your thought and input. The veteran Worrell sailors have all these safety issues well covered, and they share their knowledge with the more novice entrants. But there are always new emergency situations that arise unforeseen, and there are always new "what-ifs" to prepare for. It is good that some of this safety thinking is filtering down to the cruisers and buoys racers and short-distance racers.

And, don't worry, nobody wants to ban women from the Worrell 1000. It's actually not much of a problem, because very few women have ever sailed in that race.

Regarding a few of the things you addressed:
I, too, am familiar with jack lines on big monohulls and with clipping on from a safety harness. Catamaran sailors have a trapeze harness, and I have always assumed that they clip their tether line onto something on their trap harness, but nobody has answered my question about that yet. Guess I will have to call somebody and ask.

And regarding boom vang on Hobie 18. It is allowed on the Hobie 18, and we always had one on ours (although we did not use it for vanging). Not sure whether it would work for hauling somebody aboard the boat.

And, finally, as far as I am concerned, in an immediate emergency situation, nothing works better than brute strength. I'm a big fan of using mechanical advantage, and if you have something that can be deployed instantly, that's great. But otherwise, if it's a beach cat and you are the only other person on the boat, give yourself a shot of adrenaline and drag him aboard.

It's funny, but all the years I sailed with my husband, it never even occurred to me that I might have to rescue him instead of the other way around. And it never occurred to me to wonder how I would be able to right the boat if he became separated from it and the boat capsized. After all, the captain is supposed to stay with the boat, go down with the ship, protect his crew.....right?

Another item of safety gear that is commonly found on other boats is the "throwable". On beach cats, a throwable is on the required equipment list for some distance races. What is most commonly carried? And, how is it carried to facilitate quick deployment? (Or, is it simply a device that is aboard to meet the requirement?)

I bring it up because I started wondering if any elements of the Lifesling method for recovering an MOB could apply to catamaran distance racers/cruisers.

Mary

We had tethers on our boat made by pulling out the core of a 3/8 line and replacing it with shock cord. This way the tether would start at about 6’ and stretch to 12’. We carried them in 2 Worrells but never used them in fear of getting tangled up with the boat. If we did use them I would have attached the tether to my full trap harness.

Kevin
We did carry a throwable in the hull, but I don’t think they make much sense on a cat unless you have a pocket sewn on the tramp. Why would you need it with both crew wearing life vest and safety gear. I would never try and throw one to a person over board, I would rather try and keep control of the boat to prevent a capsize and go back and pick them up. What good would it be for the MOB to have a throwable with the other crew capsized and drifting away?

In last years Worrell we went out to practice and I had replaced the trap lines on the boat and Carl went out on the wire and the line broke. I had to take control of the boat and turn around and get him. After picking Carl up we thought we would try the other trap line and it broke and I had to go around and pick him up again (the winds were around 15 mph and I weigh 160 lbs and Carl is about 225lbs) The life guard on the beach kept yelling MOB, MOB and everyone on the beach was watching (kind of embarrassing).
Just my thoughts

David,

Thanks for the reply. Admittedly, I've been scratching my head about the throwable requirement. Could there be a device for cats that would function similar to the Lifesling?

(With the Lifeslings used on larger boats, there is a floating polypro line attached on one end to the boat, the other end to the float. The float is tossed in behind the boat and the MOB is encircled by the boat/line, making it unnecessary to manuever as precisely in order to bring the sling to the MOB.)

I've begun to feel that as distance races gain popularity and cats begin moving away from protected waters and the security of the round-the-buoys fleet, new methods and devices will become important in order to sail safely.

The throawable requirement may simply be a reflection of USCG requirements for boats of our size. I remember checking and noted that it's required for my 18, so I carry one in my tramp bag. It's not too hard to get at, but I'll agree that keeping the boat on its feet might be more important.

What good would a throwable be? Well, perhaps in a lot of cases people sail with vests that don't provide much of a margin of flotation. In waves/chop extra flotation could be a help in keeping somebody's head above water. I imagine the Worrell guys wear better vests than a lot of the rest of us.

I also keep a righting bag hooked up and stored under my tramp bag, but more for the purpose of potentially using it as a drogue to slow down the drift in a case where I've capsized and the crew has been separated from the boat (can't right it on my own, drifting away from crew...).

The one time I used my throwable was to to toss it to another team that had capsized to use to try to float the mast...