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Taipan 4.9 #148073
07/04/08 07:42 AM
07/04/08 07:42 AM
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dougmg Offline OP
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I've been trying to read up on the Taipan 4.9 in this forum and found very little using the search. Where can I go? Anyone have/had one?

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Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148074
07/04/08 07:53 AM
07/04/08 07:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Just give us the questions you want to see answered and together we'll answer then for you, here on the forum.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148075
07/04/08 08:08 AM
07/04/08 08:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
Buccaneer Offline
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Thailand
www.taipan.asn.au/ is a good place to start. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I really like this boat, I'm sure you will too... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." Ben Bernanke 2005
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: Buccaneer] #148076
07/04/08 11:10 AM
07/04/08 11:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore
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ckuang Offline
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singapore
Used to have a taipn 4.9. Really liked the boat. Would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148077
07/04/08 08:26 PM
07/04/08 08:26 PM
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dougmg Offline OP
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Hi guys,
Thanks for your offer to help. I thought I already posted these questions, but I don't see the post. So here goes again:
1) What should I expect to pay for a good used 4.9?
2) How is it getting parts?
3) What are common areas of wear for me to check?
4) Are there any common problems with this boat?
5) How hard is it to right the 4.9
6) What have your experiences been with the 4.9?
7) Would you recommend it for a recreational sailor?
8) How does the boat compare to a Inter 17
9) How many people could I take out on the boat?

Thanks again for your help.

Doug

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148078
07/04/08 10:18 PM
07/04/08 10:18 PM
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phill Offline

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Doug,
Where are you located?


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148079
07/05/08 01:07 AM
07/05/08 01:07 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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Quote

1) What should I expect to pay for a good used 4.9?
2) How is it getting parts?
3) What are common areas of wear for me to check?
4) Are there any common problems with this boat?
5) How hard is it to right the 4.9
6) What have your experiences been with the 4.9?
7) Would you recommend it for a recreational sailor?
8) How does the boat compare to a Inter 17
9) How many people could I take out on the boat?


The Taipan 4.9 was designed and built by Greg Goodall and Jim Boyer. The 4.9 enjoyed two distinct one design classes: cat rigged one-up and slooped rigged two-up. The cat rigged class has been won by the likes of Glenn Ashby. About 8 years or so ago the boat became a foundation boat for the F16 class. By adding a spinnaker, several 4.9 transformed their boats into giant killer F16s.

Taipans are extremely well built by AHPC despite their light weight. Older boats are often very stiff and well kept, so some used boats hold their value very well. Compared to the Inter/Nacra 17, the Taipan is much, much lighter but has similar performance--a good comparison might be corvette vs lotus; both get around the track fast, one by brute force horsepower, the other by power with finesse. The 4.9 will carry two adults or one adult and two youth but can be sailed and righted by most adults solo. The Inter 17 is a bigger boat and may carry more crew weight but would be hard to right solo.

I'm not familiar with specific problems with the boat and have had none with mine. I have heard some people say the rear beam should be beefier, but the boat seems very stiff as designed. Parts are readily available, either locally or directly from AHPC--I've ordered things from time to time directly from the factory.

The Taipan 4.9 had several options that affect weight, durability, stiffness, and value:

Hulls--foam sandwich with either two layers standard polyester fiberglass, one layer standard and one layer kevlar glass, or both layers of kevlar glass

Foils--carbon fiber or standard dagger boards and rudders

Rudder stocks--aluminum or carbon fiber

Sail--originally a modest fat head; recent class vote now allows a larger fat head

Cat rigged--no jib or jib hardware; one set of traps; some have a more flexible superwing mast than the sloops

Sloop rigged--jib with blocks and sheet, two sets of traps

Note that my comments are relative to factory built Taipans. The rules allow home building the boat too, and there are several timber 4.9s in Australia and maybe one or two in Europe but none in North America.

Overall, the Taipan 4.9 is a superb boat for racing or recreation. It is a very responsive boat and the rig is somewhat sophisticated compared to most purely recreational boats; in fact, even the newest F16s have rigs very similar to the Taipan 4.9. Its only drawback is cost--their excellent built and design qualities help them hold their value. Unlike a Hobie 16, for example, a 10 year old 4.9 may be as competitive as a new boat.

Photo of me sparring with an A2 A-class Cat see http://www.flickr.com/photos/49238728@N00/2628079259/

Best of luck!


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: ejpoulsen] #148080
07/05/08 03:21 AM
07/05/08 03:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
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Quote

Note that my comments are relative to factory built Taipans. The rules allow home building the boat too, and there are several timber 4.9s in Australia and maybe one or two in Europe but none in North America.



There is at least one timber homebuild Taipan 4.9 in USA, Micheal Coffmans old build. I believe it is sailnumber 32, so it is an oldie as well (15+ years), but well maintained all the way up to Micheal sold it on. I don't know its condition now as I have lost track of this boat.

I agree with Eric that Taipan seem incredibally aging resistant; even the timber homebuild. It is not a rare occurance for a crew to win the Aussie national titles while sailing a 15 year old "woody".

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 07/05/08 03:24 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148081
07/05/08 03:55 AM
07/05/08 03:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Quote

1) What should I expect to pay for a good used 4.9?



Depends on the age and how well it has been maintained.

Typically dealers over here use the following rule of thumb :

deduct 15% of new price as soon as it has been sold c.q. when it is one year old
deduct 10% of new price for each following year of age till you reach the basic price of 10%-15% that is will retain as long as it is in reasonable sailing condition.

Start adding some costs when the boat has been refurbished with new items like new sails etc.


Quote

2) How is it getting parts?



By far most parts are generally available from 3rd parties (Harken, Layline, Sailmakers, etc)

Specific are beams, mast, daggerboards, rudders and stocks. However mast, daggerboards and rudders+stocks can be ordered from VWM as the Blade F16 uses/had used the same components.

That leaves only the beams as AHPC specific, but these tend to last for a long time anyway.


Quote

3) What are common areas of wear for me to check?


They usual general checks, there are no specific issues with the Taipan 4.9 design that I'm aware off.


Quote

4) Are there any common problems with this boat?



No problems, just three drawback that you can learn to live with rather well.

-1- The boat sits well into the water till about 150 kg, beyond that it starts to sit deep into the water. However you can indeed go up to 200 kg and still sail the boat in a recreational manner, it'll just feel more sluggish and be harder to make it go fast. For racing stay under 150 kg if you want to be competitive. The newer F16's take weight significantly better and even hardly notice it.

-2- The standard jib sheeting system on the T4.9 (led back to middle of tramp) really reduces the free space on the trampoline. Changing to a selftacking jib or blocks mounted on the main beam makes a very large difference to the feel of how roomy the boat is. Especially adviced when sailing 2-up with two adults.

-3- The boat is an excellent performer in light weather and in 1-up configuration it has an advantage over the newer F16's with a fatter keelline. However, the payback comes in really rough conditions. Here the fine bows can be pushed under relatively easily. Far more often then not the bows come back up without the boat stopping and you'll continue, but sometimes they don't. Especially when transitioning from upwind in a blow to beam reach in a blow you'll have to coach the boat through its turn or you'll take a shower. Flying the spinnaker really helps the boat on downwind legs in this respect and that is why the addition of the spi is such an useful feature on the T4.9


Quote

5) How hard is it to right the 4.9


Basically speaking it is the most easy to right boat right after the A-cats. I can do it on my own and have always done it on my own. I'm, 85-90 kg. By comparison, I had lots of trouble with a boat like the FX-one and only succeeded there unaided once. Data seems to suggest that a Taipan or F16 cna be righting even in the most challenging of conditions when you are 70-75 kg and have a flawless righting technique. However, typically sailors in this range and below tend to use a small righting bag to give them just that bit of extra kg.


Quote

6) What have your experiences been with the 4.9?



Build and owned one for 4 years now and have sailed one for about 6 years. I think it is an excellent boat, especially when finding an attractively priced secondhander. The new F16's are better in several aspects but I would not mind using my Taipan for many more years.


Quote

7) Would you recommend it for a recreational sailor?



As long as you are willing to take care of it, its not a rotomoulded boat or a TheMightyHobie18 tank. The only drawback for a recreational sailor can be the performance oriented nature of the boat. It is a fast and agile boat and it will react very noticeably to trim changes and helming. In a blow the boat will speed along and feel rich in sailpower, you have to be willing to learn how to harness that otherwise look for a much more downtrimmed boat like the Prindle 16's etc.

Basically, it is a racer at its core.


Quote

8) How does the boat compare to a Inter 17



I didn't like the first versions of the nacra 17's. I do like the new EU version of theirs, however I'm pretty much convinced the US version is different from that version, most noteable in the way of sail area and ready to sail weight. Taipans on the other hand are Taipans and have been stable for nearly 20 years now and well proven.

In the way of speed the difference between the Taipan and Inter-17R (version) is very small and basically it will come down to who is sailing the boat. The Taipan will be easier to right then the Nacra F17 (US and EU version) who are fitted with the F18 aluminium mast.

Personally I like lightweight boats, ever since I changed over I praised my decision to go with one that is 35-60 kg lighter then the next design that the competition overs. On the beach, soft sand, trailer and when putting the boat over on land, I really notice the difference.

I'm convinced the nacra 17's are more forgiving in a blow when it comes down to diving with respect to the Taipan 4.9. This is difference is much smaller with the newer F16's, especially with the Viper and Aussie Blade.


Quote

9) How many people could I take out on the boat?


My record is 2 adults and 2 kids (but I got a widened Taipan and have a selftacking jib setup)

and on a different occasion I sailed with 210 kg on board (myself and two other adults).

But this is very much recreational sailing although I lost only about 15 % of speed I could still keep up with the P16's and H16's.


I hope this helps,

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: Wouter] #148082
07/05/08 08:18 AM
07/05/08 08:18 AM
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singapore
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ckuang Offline
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singapore
Hi Doug, since most of the answers have been answered, I'll just fill in with my data.

How easy is it to right? I'm 75 kilos and never had any problem even in the light stuff.

Lots of sailors at my club sail the T4.9 recreationally. The hull volume is a little small for anything more than 2 adult sin my opinion, but then again if you wanted to be carrying more than that, you;d probably want a much bigger cat than a 16ft.

How does it compare to the Inter 17? I've sailed both and I find the T4.9 a more refined design. The 17 is a much heavier boat with much heavier loads on sheets, rigging, etc, whereas the loads on the T4.9 are much lower. Personally, I find myself sailing the T4.9 faster than I would be able to sail the Inter 17, fist because of my smaller physique and seocnd because I relate more to the overall design of the boat of a highly efficient platform with lower weights.

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: Wouter] #148083
07/05/08 09:03 AM
07/05/08 09:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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Quote
There is at least one timber homebuild Taipan 4.9 in USA, Micheal Coffmans old build. I believe it is sailnumber 32, so it is an oldie as well (15+ years), but well maintained all the way up to Micheal sold it on. I don't know its condition now as I have lost track of this boat.



Taipan #32 has changed hands a few times but I think it is the boat in the Catsailor classified ads right now ($6000) although I may be wrong. The history as I heard is Dave Ellis bought Taipan 032 from Michael, then sold it to Kirby Haws in Daytona who then sold it to Paul Alatorre near Knoxville. I bought the spin, one main, and one jib.

Have any of the Tennessee F16 folks ever seen this boat around?

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: phill] #148084
07/05/08 07:25 PM
07/05/08 07:25 PM
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dougmg Offline OP
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In the US, New Jersey

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: ckuang] #148085
07/05/08 07:32 PM
07/05/08 07:32 PM
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dougmg Offline OP
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Thank you all for your thoughts. I'm sure I have more. Actually.....How can I tell the difference between a factory 4.9 and a home built?

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148086
07/05/08 09:41 PM
07/05/08 09:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461
Victoria, Oztralia
mattaipan Offline
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Victoria, Oztralia
From a few feet away, the bottom of the transom has a lip on the homebuilt boats.

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Last edited by mattaipan; 07/05/08 09:47 PM.

Matt Harper Homebuilt Taipan 4.9 AUS 329 'GOT WOOD' SEEDY PIRATES RACING TEAM
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: David Parker] #148087
07/06/08 12:52 AM
07/06/08 12:52 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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Quote
Quote
There is at least one timber homebuild Taipan 4.9 in USA, Micheal Coffmans old build. I believe it is sailnumber 32, so it is an oldie as well (15+ years), but well maintained all the way up to Micheal sold it on. I don't know its condition now as I have lost track of this boat.



Taipan #32 has changed hands a few times but I think it is the boat in the Catsailor classified ads right now ($6000) although I may be wrong. The history as I heard is Dave Ellis bought Taipan 032 from Michael, then sold it to Kirby Haws in Daytona who then sold it to Paul Alatorre near Knoxville. I bought the spin, one main, and one jib.

Have any of the Tennessee F16 folks ever seen this boat around?



Wow, I've sailed 032 and didn't notice it being a homebuild!


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148088
07/06/08 01:50 AM
07/06/08 01:50 AM
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phill Offline

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Doug,
AHPC have a distributor in the USA- so you should be able to source parts from them.
"Fun in the sun" (see add on catsailor front page.)

As Matt said-if it has a lip on the transoms it's homebuilt, but if not, it still may be home built.
Not all home built boats have the lip. It's in the plans but does not mean the builder put it on the boat.
However your not allowed to build home built boats from glass so they are all timber.
OPen a hatch and look inside. If timber home built, if glass factory built.
There are other tell tail signs but looking inside the hatch is 100% and simple.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: ejpoulsen] #148089
07/06/08 10:20 AM
07/06/08 10:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 14
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dougmg Offline OP
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What are you thoughts about the differences between a factory vs homebuilt? The one for sale with Catsailor is #32, Paul's.

Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148090
07/06/08 04:39 PM
07/06/08 04:39 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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Posts: 1,037
Central California
Some homebuilt boats, I understand, are every bit as good as factory built boats, as race results have proven. But homebuilt boats, I'm sure, vary considerably in quality. I sailed 032 about 6 years ago and it was a very solid boat at that time--I think it had the name "Spellbound" on the side or something like that. With the factory boats the quality is consistent and very high, so they will probably command a little higher price.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: dougmg] #148091
07/10/08 11:45 PM
07/10/08 11:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 196
Arkansas, USA
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CaptainKirt Offline
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Arkansas, USA
I helped Michael bring that boat over when he got it- It was originally built in Australia and had a thin wall cat rig mast- I purchased this from Michael (only one in the US I believe-) and he got a new sloop Superwing mast at that time and the boat was given a good going over and refurbishment by the AHPC factory prior to coming over. I have not seen the boat since Michael got rid of it but at that time it was a very nice boat. One difference- it has the "original" 4.9 boards which are (help me out here Phill!) I believe thinner and longer than my (1997) factory boat. I believe you can still get those boards from AHPC but I'm not sure- it also has the "original" rudder shape unlike the newest boats which have the same as the AHPC "A" cats-

Kirt


Kirt Simmons
Taipan, Flyer
Re: Taipan 4.9 [Re: CaptainKirt] #148092
07/11/08 04:08 AM
07/11/08 04:08 AM
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Posts: 1,449
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phill Offline

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Kirt,
The original boards had a longer chord around 330mm.
That was reduced to 290mm before I built my first Taipan.
I'm not aware of a change in length although the earlier boards look shorter but that may have been because of the longer chord.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

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