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Removing cover from lines #149596
07/15/08 04:48 PM
07/15/08 04:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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F-18 5150  Offline OP
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california
Whats the best way to keep the line casing from moving after a section has been removed? I'm trying to remove the casing from my spin dousing line.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
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Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: F-18 5150] #149597
07/15/08 05:37 PM
07/15/08 05:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
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TeamTeets Offline
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TeamTeets  Offline
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Ohio
Why not remove the core and leave the casing? That is how I run my F17.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: TeamTeets] #149598
07/15/08 05:43 PM
07/15/08 05:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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Why not remove the core and leave the casing? That is how I run my F17.


?

Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: F-18 5150] #149599
07/15/08 09:59 PM
07/15/08 09:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
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League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
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By casing I assume you mean cover and are stripping back a section of cover to leave the skinny core exposed (either to reduce friction on the retrieval end or windage on the hoist end.)

To stop the remaining cover from moving around you can bury it into the core in what is called a core to cover splice. You can find instructions on how to do this on line. Some advice:

  • Pick a line which lends itself to this type of work - i.e. the core must be OK to strip (not parallel fibers) and the cover must be spliceable.
  • Don't expect to be able to easily do this to an existing halyard which has been loaded up - splicing with the right type of line is easy on new line and virtually impossible on old line - the core and cover become fuzzy - giving too much friction to be able to bury the cover into the core.
  • Practice your trade on some scraps of line (using line that has never been used).
  • Don't spend good money on a splicing kit from a marine store - they are typically full of fids that are far too big for the type of work you will do on a beach cat. A splicing wand (Brian Toss makes a good one) can be handy, but my crew works his magic with the guts of ball point pens, drill bits, bits of coat hanger - anything thin, smooth and small.
  • Beware trying to trim back the cover and seize the cut end to the core. It will look like poop, fray and then jam up on you. Learn to splice.
  • An alternative to buying a double braid line and then stripping off that cover you just paid good money for: Use a 12 strand single braid like Swiftcord for the fatter section of line you have to pull on. Splice on skinny 4mm high tech single braid (e.g. Vectran or Spectra) into the end for the sections where you want to save weight, drag and friction. Bury the big line into the little one with a tapered splice and the little one into the big one with a tapered splice.


Here is a link with pictures showing a high tech double braid line being tapered (cover is taper spliced into the core). I would not whip the transition like they show in the pictures - that makes a stiff spot in the line that won't run nicely over a block. Do a little lock stitching to secure a splice - you don't need too much.

Good luck.

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: PTP] #149600
07/16/08 06:31 AM
07/16/08 06:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
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TeamTeets Offline
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Ohio
Quote

Quote:
Why not remove the core and leave the casing? That is how I run my F17.

?


Clarification... Removing weight from the dowsing line helps when the wind goes really light. The chute will collapse less when the wind goes to nothing. You can remove the outer cover but are left with the problem here of finishing the cover to the core at a point where it must be pulled through suffers, blocks and cleats. It is easier to remove the core and leave just the cover. To do so just pick a spot around the front beam on the way to the hoisted chute... poke through the jacket and grab the core. Scrunch up the jacket along the line an work the core out. Cut off the excess core and stuff the core tail back into the cover. Like Chris said, don't try it on old line.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: TeamTeets] #149601
07/16/08 09:49 AM
07/16/08 09:49 AM
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Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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I know how to taper a line (removing "case/cover" and burying it into the core). I believe this is what chris is explaining also. I hadn't thought of removing the core and leaving the cover- which is what you are explainging- usually because the core is the strength and low stretch part of the line and generally has less abrasion than the cover. As for weight.. not sure which would be heavier.

Last edited by PTP; 07/16/08 09:51 AM.
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: PTP] #149602
07/16/08 10:53 AM
07/16/08 10:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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I know how to taper a line (removing "case/cover" and burying it into the core). I believe this is what chris is explaining also. I hadn't thought of removing the core and leaving the cover- which is what you are explainging- usually because the core is the strength and low stretch part of the line and generally has less abrasion than the cover. As for weight.. not sure which would be heavier.


On the return line there is more than enough strength in the cover to do the job. The lines are way over sized so you can grab them easily not becuase they need strength. I have removed the jacket going to the head all the way to just before the cleat. Then I removed the core from behind the cleat to the last snuffer patch.

It has presented no issues as far as handling the line, There are no kinks going through blocks any more, and it does not burn the spin pulling through the hoop either. After a little over a year, I do not have any of the line burns on my spin I used to get. It is a little harder on the top halyard pulley block. I have not found 1 yet that lasts very long and with the tapered top, the thinner line they have to replaced fairly regularly.

Matt

Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: Matt M] #149603
07/16/08 11:25 AM
07/16/08 11:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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Michigan
Matt..
That is an interesting way to do it... hadn't thought of that. It would certainly be strong enough for both ends, but definately for the snuffer end. I tapered both ends and it is a little slick on the snuffer end of the line- the last pull or two is core. The spyderline core is pretty smooth and I haven't had a problem with any burns either. Next time around I think I will try it your way.
for your halyard block, do you run a harken 29mm carbo block with the line bale(? correct term? the line that runs around the mast to hold the block towards the mast) running through the center of the block? I have rigged three boats like this (2 HTs, and my boat) and haven't had a problem in any of them over the last 1.5 yrs). All three have a tapered 3/16 halyard.

Last edited by PTP; 07/16/08 11:26 AM.
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: PTP] #149604
07/16/08 12:46 PM
07/16/08 12:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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For an even more efficient use of the line do this to create an 80 foot halyard with 25 feet of taper (F18 or N20).

Take 55 feet of 3/16" EnduraBraid.
Open the cover and pull the core out 18 inches from the end.
Milk the entire cover back 25 feet.
Taper the 18" of cover and insert back into the core, and lockstitch in place.

Now you've got an 80 foot halyard with 25' of taper at the top, 35' of rope/core in the middle, and 25' of cover only on the retrieval section.

Works like a charm.

-Mike

Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: mikekrantz] #149605
07/16/08 12:50 PM
07/16/08 12:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
For an even more efficient use of the line do this to create an 80 foot halyard with 25 feet of taper (F18 or N20).

Take 55 feet of 3/16" EnduraBraid.
Open the cover and pull the core out 18 inches from the end.
Milk the entire cover back 25 feet.
Taper the 18" of cover and insert back into the core, and lockstitch in place.

Now you've got an 80 foot halyard with 25' of taper at the top, 35' of rope/core in the middle, and 25' of cover only on the retrieval section.

Works like a charm.

-Mike


Brilliant!


Jake Kohl
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: Jake] #149606
07/16/08 02:14 PM
07/16/08 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
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ksurfer2 Offline
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tampa, fl
What does "milk the cover" mean??


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: ksurfer2] #149607
07/16/08 02:28 PM
07/16/08 02:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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mikekrantz  Offline
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To move the cover down, you can't just grab it on the end and pull on it, or it will tighten around the core (think chinese finger puzzle). You have to grab the core, and push the cover down a couple of feet, then grab the cover and core below where it's bunched up and work the slack down - like milking a cow. Repeat these steps until you've moved the cover down 25'. After the tapered core is in place continue to work down the cover removing any slack. The cover must be tight around the core to develop good cover to core adhesion, otherwise you'll have problems with the core slipping inside the cover at the cleat location.

Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: mikekrantz] #149608
07/16/08 02:33 PM
07/16/08 02:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
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ksurfer2 Offline
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ksurfer2  Offline
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tampa, fl
I have NO IDEA what a Chinese finger puzzle is, but I understand what you are saying. Thanks!


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: ksurfer2] #149609
07/16/08 03:00 PM
07/16/08 03:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: ksurfer2] #149610
07/16/08 03:03 PM
07/16/08 03:03 PM

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Quote
I have NO IDEA what a Chinese finger puzzle is, but I understand what you are saying. Thanks!


also called Chinese finger cuffs... they are the tube of cloth that you can slide 2 index fingers in with ease. But if you try to force them out the cloth constricts around them and makes it impossible to pull your fingers out...

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Last edited by andrewscott; 07/16/08 03:03 PM.
Re: Removing cover from lines [Re: ksurfer2] #149611
07/16/08 03:24 PM
07/16/08 03:24 PM

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What does "milk the cover" mean??


I think it is what happens every night when i sleep. by the middle of the night my girlfriend has slowly taken all the sheets and blankets and i am left cold and un-covered!


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