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Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... #150173
07/22/08 11:26 AM
07/22/08 11:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline OP
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It seems like Booth has been working on a secret weapon for the Olympics, basically he recut his gennaker to go upwind.
(Would this also explain the whole pelican-striker discussion we had earlier?

Read the google-translation from the press release:
Team Zwitzerleven unveal revolutionary new sail for Qingdao
[Linked Image]

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Tony_F18] #150174
07/22/08 12:34 PM
07/22/08 12:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
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A snuffable hooter no less...perhaps Rick was on to something afterall.

This is an interesting development. I really admire Mitch's ethic in pushing development in the Tornado class - he introduced the Wild Thing as a secret weapon at the Tornado worlds in Houston back in the day.

Thanks for posting Tony.

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Tony_F18] #150175
07/22/08 01:28 PM
07/22/08 01:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Terrific!

Can't wait to see how she runs.

If it lives up to the promise, I'll be looking for put one on my boat...get lots of light wind events here in SoCal and I have a hard time staying with I20's upwind (better boards & more sail area...unless..!)

I love the fact it is completely within the class rules and has the potential to turn the competition upside-down! Very clever of them Mitch & his team...a true innovator if ever these was one.

This is why we need multi's in the games! Without this level of development focus, these concepts would rarely get off the drawing board.

Mike.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: flumpmaster] #150176
07/22/08 01:30 PM
07/22/08 01:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Looks like a small flat kite to me.

Quite surprised that everyone has not gone this route.

Be interesting to see how much wind they can carry it up wind.

And at what point loosing area kills them down wind.

It is a risk for them, I know they changed the minimum wind rule for the Ollies this time, but not sure how low they will race in.

I assume it still passes the 75% girth rule. It looks like it does.



Good thinking batman!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Tony_F18] #150177
07/22/08 01:33 PM
07/22/08 01:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Doesn't the Olympics frown on such innovations that remove some of the human from the achievement?


Jake Kohl
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Jake] #150178
07/22/08 01:41 PM
07/22/08 01:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Quote
Doesn't the Olympics frown on such innovations that remove some of the human from the achievement?


Who thought it up, an alien?

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Tornado] #150179
07/22/08 01:52 PM
07/22/08 01:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
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Tony_F18 Offline OP
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The sail looks somewhat similar to what they use on the VX40.
One thing I would really like to know is when they use it for upwind sailing, how does it tack?
Or maybe they just use it for a long single tack and then douse it?
[Linked Image]

Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Tornado] #150180
07/22/08 01:55 PM
07/22/08 01:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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It's not new. Rick White was doing it on his N6.0 almost 10 years ago.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: David Ingram] #150181
07/22/08 02:05 PM
07/22/08 02:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

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Thanks for remembering, Dave.
Still using it on the Taipan 4.9 and Wave
And they sail very well upwind. When tacking I partially furl the sail.
I know he is dousing it, but furling is much easier.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: David Ingram] #150182
07/22/08 02:28 PM
07/22/08 02:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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Y'all are right, this isn't new.

Fboats use their screachers upwind in less than 8kt, as standard procedure.

Next?

Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Tornado] #150183
07/22/08 02:32 PM
07/22/08 02:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
Quote
Doesn't the Olympics frown on such innovations that remove some of the human from the achievement?


Who thought it up, an alien?

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I know...but the games have, at least on the surface, been less about the equipment and more about the athlete.


Jake Kohl
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Tony_F18] #150184
07/22/08 02:54 PM
07/22/08 02:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Quote
The sail looks somewhat similar to what they use on the VX40.
One thing I would really like to know is when they use it for upwind sailing, how does it tack?
Or maybe they just use it for a long single tack and then douse it?
[Linked Image]


I can carry my latest Grant Piggot kite up wind, I can tack it wire to wire as well, but I cannot carry it high enough to pay (I think); it's just feckin scary when the wind pipes up a knot and I have to bear off 50 degrees before I go swimming. It's funny in a scary kinda way!!!!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: scooby_simon] #150185
07/22/08 03:08 PM
07/22/08 03:08 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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You can head up also. Tried and tested with an old T spi <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #150186
07/22/08 03:45 PM
07/22/08 03:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Quote
You can head up also. Tried and tested with an old T spi <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


But then there is no way out of the head-up single handed; Coming in off the wire and dropping upwind will get messy!!!!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: tami] #150187
07/22/08 04:03 PM
07/22/08 04:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
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fin.  Offline
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Quote
Y'all are right, this isn't new.



Next?


http://mysite.verizon.net/flyjib/FJsite/history/history.htm

Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: fin.] #150188
07/22/08 04:31 PM
07/22/08 04:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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Gulf Coast

Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: tami] #150189
07/23/08 02:45 AM
07/23/08 02:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
R
ratherbsailing Offline
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ratherbsailing  Offline
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R

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Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
I seem to recall Mitch turning up at an F18 worlds with a fully battened jib then they adjusted the rules and banned it.
now some 5-6 years later it's class legal.



Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: scooby_simon] #150190
07/23/08 04:08 AM
07/23/08 04:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

I assume it still passes the 75% girth rule. It looks like it does.



A quick measurement on the picture suggest a girth much closer to 50%

I seem to recall that the Tornado class rules actually do not contain a 75% girth rule as the other classes know it.

Someone has to check this but I remember the Tornado class only setting max lengths on the foot leech and luff of the spinnaker sail and limit area and shape that way.

Actually the hooter is a rather old racing sail. The ORMA tris used to have one as far back as in the 80's/early 90's. It is just that cats class rules disallowed such sails by rulings like the girth rule.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Wouter] #150191
07/23/08 04:59 AM
07/23/08 04:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
C
Catfan Offline
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From 2008 International Tornado Class Rule
GENNAKER MAX DIMENSIONS
Luff length - 9150 mm
Leech length - 8050 mm
Foot length - 4250 mm
Head to Mid-foot - 8750 mm
Half width – as defined by ERS G.7.5(b) - 3450 mm

Then apparently the max girth allowed is 81% of the foot lenght, but actually there is no minimum

Re: Mitch Booth's upwind gennaker... [Re: Catfan] #150192
07/23/08 07:04 AM
07/23/08 07:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline OP
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Our friends over at The Daily Sail have an article about the new sail, I wont post the detailed pics here due to them being in the subscribers only section though.
http://www.thedailysail.com/ism/articles...tdsde&Login

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