| |  Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: ksurfer2]
#151442
08/06/08 12:09 PM 08/06/08 12:09 PM |
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Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram 
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Clermont, FL, USA | Don't dump the N20, and yes let the F18's make their presence known when they are ready. I think all it will take is for a top F18 team to start a grass routes movement.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: BrianK]
#151443
08/06/08 12:34 PM 08/06/08 12:34 PM |
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Framingham, MA acceleratedchaos
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Framingham, MA | Brain,
If you build it, market it, and make it happen I think you could have a great idea here. I don't see it replacing anything that currently exists, but rather a new entity of itself. It would definately be a much different group, but then again, the intention wouldn't be to replace anything. I personally would enjoy the intensity of an event like this, but there would certainly need to be some sort of significant draw beyond the experience. One thing that would disappear is the commeroderie between competitors that develops during an event like the Tybee. By having the off the water time together, I have made some great friends who are a huge part of the reason I come back year after year.
Chris | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: acceleratedchaos]
#151444
08/06/08 01:07 PM 08/06/08 01:07 PM |
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503 BrianK
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| Theres no doubt that there would be some pain involved in F18 only. Jake just bought a new boat, Jay has three, but if your looking at a longer term strategy for building the race I still think its the right way to go even if its a pain in the short term.
A format change to non-stop may keep some people away too, sure, but the challenge may also attract others. As Jake said, you can currently try this race without some crazy level of experience, going non-stop would certainly up the crazy level which makes it more interested to non-sailors (ans sponsors). Sailing 60-100 miles a day, sounds pretty tough, doing it non-stop, thats crazy! Crazy factor = good.
I think this is a question of what we all want for/from the race. Sponsorship? I think Chuck wants more, I think the teams want more, I know I would like more from a media perspective to increase coverage.
I think the benefit of viewability for the public (and sponsors) as far as on the beach is minimal and not very attractive to sponsors. A few hundred or even thousand people on a beach is very little advertising.
I think you build a tough race that is extremely challenging. That means people quitting, hitting their breaking point, and some excelling. Great stories, and its not just about sailing.
I am absolutely not trying to pretend Im an expert here, and I appreciate everything Chuck B has done, Im just brainstorming on how to build the race.
Adventure Online TV last quarter averaged 60,000 video plays per month. Sailing is a small part of that stat. Many of our distribuion partners have asked for less sailing, more other stuff.
Between my normal job and Adventure Online TV, I wont be starting any new races. I not sure we have the base to have competing races anyway. | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: BrianK]
#151445
08/06/08 01:42 PM 08/06/08 01:42 PM |
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Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Naples, FL | Okay, how about a non-stop (with checkpoint) race from Tybee BACK to Key Largo? Starting the day after T500.
Crews could opt to sail back or charter their boat to another crew willing to do that race. Then they wouldn't have to trailer the boats as much.
I would guess the race back would be slower, since there might be more upwind work...
WHat caused the demise of "Eco Challenge"? For a while, it was a hit on Discovery Channel - drama, injury, etc. Two or three seasons (excellent cinematography, too!) that (may have) sparked an adventure racing sub-culture that exists today.
I would think something like Eco-Challenge has the same difficulties sailing faces - hard to film, not spectator friendly (except for checkpoints), sponsorship ROI is hard to track, etc....
Jay
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: BrianK]
#151446
08/06/08 01:47 PM 08/06/08 01:47 PM |
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Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Naples, FL |
Adventure Online TV last quarter averaged 60,000 video plays per month. Sailing is a small part of that stat. Many of our distribuion partners have asked for less sailing, more other stuff.
So people want more injuries & scantily clad subjects (male & female)? There was a movie a while back (the name escapes me) with Alan Alda wherein the three secrets of great cinema were outlined: - Defiance of authority - Destruction of property - People taking off their clothes I think the movie was lame, but those points were well taken! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Jay
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: BrianK]
#151448
08/06/08 02:03 PM 08/06/08 02:03 PM |
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tampa, fl ksurfer2
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tampa, fl | Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see the logic in dumping the I-20 in favor of an all F-18 event. The F-18's have been invited for the past two years. Each year only 1 has shown up. I can see making that change when so many F-18's are on the line that the vastly outnumbered I-20's are in the way, but until that time comes, it makes no sense at all!
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: ksurfer2]
#151449
08/06/08 02:05 PM 08/06/08 02:05 PM |
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Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
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Portland, Maine | I can see making that change when so many F-18's are on the line that the vastly outnumbered I-20's are in the way, but until that time comes, it makes no sense at all!
<stirpot> The only way they'd beat the 20's if there were none on the line!!!!! </stirpot> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: ksurfer2]
#151450
08/06/08 02:12 PM 08/06/08 02:12 PM |
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| Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see the logic in dumping the I-20 in favor of an all F-18 event. The F-18's have been invited for the past two years. Each year only 1 has shown up. I can see making that change when so many F-18's are on the line that the vastly outnumbered I-20's are in the way, but until that time comes, it makes no sense at all! Karl, this is based on many comments from sailors who have done the race that above all, they want to be first to the beach. As long as the 20 footer is an option, it will be chosen. My belief is that by taking away the choice, your investing in a class which has a greater chance at overall growth. | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#151451
08/06/08 02:15 PM 08/06/08 02:15 PM |
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South Carolina Jake OP
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South Carolina | Okay, how about a non-stop (with checkpoint) race from Tybee BACK to Key Largo? Starting the day after T500.
No, no, no. My drive to start the T500 is 14 hours. It's only a 4.5 hour drive back home from the finish. I don't want two 14 hour drives!
Jake Kohl
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#151452
08/06/08 02:17 PM 08/06/08 02:17 PM |
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Also, how would you get video from racers who never stop?
You would still have to have checkpoints, and video crews would need to be assigned to individual teams. | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: Jake]
#151453
08/06/08 02:26 PM 08/06/08 02:26 PM |
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St. Louis, MO, Mike Hill
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St. Louis, MO, | Okay, how about a non-stop (with checkpoint) race from Tybee BACK to Key Largo? Starting the day after T500.
No, no, no. My drive to start the T500 is 14 hours. It's only a 4.5 hour drive back home from the finish. I don't want two 14 hour drives! Jake, You could always just sail back to Tybee again. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Mike Hill; 08/06/08 02:28 PM.
Mike Hill
N20 #1005
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: Mike Hill]
#151454
08/06/08 02:52 PM 08/06/08 02:52 PM |
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South Carolina Jake OP
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South Carolina | Or start at Tybee, go south, then go north.
I dunno...there's something silly about sailing 1000 miles and ending up at the same place you started.
Jake Kohl
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#151455
08/06/08 02:55 PM 08/06/08 02:55 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Hi Lee,
That post wasn't directed at You, sorry if it came off like that. It was in reference to Mark's question.
Now back to the action
If the F-18s want to come and have their own class they can. They don't.(except for Moose/Burd, and Layline/Zhik) And as much as we want sailing cats in distance races to be a mainstream, sticker clad, loved by everybody game it ain't gonna happen.Your average Joe spectator isn't smart enough to get 1/3 of what's going on. If you do anything to make this less fun and more costly to the competitors , they're not gonna keep doin' it.Without competitors you've got nothing to sell and nothing to watch. As much as alot of my friends in this crowd hate the name Mike Worrell ,you still have to look at what he did and what Chuck has done and see what changes worked and what didn't. Chuck has offered to let in a few different classes of boats,(F-18, Tornado, Eagle?,etc.)to come and play, they don't bring the numbers.Mike tried to switch up boats in the W-1000 and it worked the first time, but not so much the second.
Brian you do a fabulous job, and as good as you do it ,there is no way you can cover it like you can mountain biking or kayaking.It's not physically possible. So to compare the popularity of racing cats to those is sort of apples and oranges.Making it non-stop would be even harder for coverage.
I'm not opposed to switching to another boat but I'm not gonna go backwards to a less capable boat. Everyone that I've talked to that has distance raced the F-18 and the I-20 said they liked the extra 2 feet.That is not a slam to the F-18s so don't get your panties in a wad, it's just not the boats strong point.Most all of the ideas tossed out there are not new, this stuff has been tried.
In my opinion the Tybee should have classes for the boats that bring sufficient numbers to have a class(like it's set up now), you can't force it.
In conclusion if you elect me president I'll make all your dreams come true , everybody will get to be a rockstar like JC, two catamarans in every garage and cold beer in every cooler.
Thank You, and goodnight!
Todd
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#151456
08/06/08 03:10 PM 08/06/08 03:10 PM |
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503 BrianK
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| Hi Lee,
That post wasn't directed at You, sorry if it came off like that. It was in reference to Mark's question.
Now back to the action
If the F-18s want to come and have their own class they can. They don't.(except for Moose/Burd, and Layline/Zhik) And as much as we want sailing cats in distance races to be a mainstream, sticker clad, loved by everybody game it ain't gonna happen.Your average Joe spectator isn't smart enough to get 1/3 of what's going on. If you do anything to make this less fun and more costly to the competitors , they're not gonna keep doin' it.Without competitors you've got nothing to sell and nothing to watch. As much as alot of my friends in this crowd hate the name Mike Worrell ,you still have to look at what he did and what Chuck has done and see what changes worked and what didn't. Chuck has offered to let in a few different classes of boats,(F-18, Tornado, Eagle?,etc.)to come and play, they don't bring the numbers.Mike tried to switch up boats in the W-1000 and it worked the first time, but not so much the second.
Brian you do a fabulous job, and as good as you do it ,there is no way you can cover it like you can mountain biking or kayaking.It's not physically possible. So to compare the popularity of racing cats to those is sort of apples and oranges.Making it non-stop would be even harder for coverage.
I'm not opposed to switching to another boat but I'm not gonna go backwards to a less capable boat. Everyone that I've talked to that has distance raced the F-18 and the I-20 said they liked the extra 2 feet.That is not a slam to the F-18s so don't get your panties in a wad, it's just not the boats strong point.Most all of the ideas tossed out there are not new, this stuff has been tried.
In my opinion the Tybee should have classes for the boats that bring sufficient numbers to have a class(like it's set up now), you can't force it.
In conclusion if you elect me president I'll make all your dreams come true , everybody will get to be a rockstar like JC, two catamarans in every garage and cold beer in every cooler.
Thank You, and goodnight!
Todd Really its just a conspiracy to get rid of the heavy teams. | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: WindyHillF20]
#151458
08/06/08 03:19 PM 08/06/08 03:19 PM |
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Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
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Portland, Maine | F18 boats are not built to withstand this kind of abuse. Absolutely untrue and completely false. The ONLY reason that the F18's did not make it to the finish (at least this year) was lack of boat-specific spares. Had more F18 teams showed up, finding spares would not have been a problem. If you think that the N20's don't need plenty of these parts, then you're incorrect. The only difference is that when someone needs their 2nd spare daggerboard, if they're on a N20 there are 9 teams from which they can ask around. If they are on a F18, then they are on their own. Its not fair to say that the F18's break more, when they don't. Hell, the N20's took PLENTY of carnage this year. Why not open it up to all catamarans, old and new. I wouldn't want to be on the beach waiting for a H16 to finish a 120nm leg in 5 knots of downwind breeze. Would you? | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#151459
08/06/08 03:36 PM 08/06/08 03:36 PM |
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Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon
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Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Looking for a Job, I got credi... | The reason F18's don't come is that they will not win; the N20's are faster.
Sponsers won't understand "first F18". They understand "FIRST".
People outside the US will not buy an N20 to compete. I'm not aware of a pool of charter boats.
If the race wants to expand and get people outside the US to come and play, it has to be something other than N20's.
Whats the most popular high performance 2 up boat with a Kite; The F18.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: BrianK]
#151460
08/06/08 03:47 PM 08/06/08 03:47 PM |
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Roanoke Island ,N.C. | [/quote]
Really its just a conspiracy to get rid of the heavy teams. [/quote]
I knew it!!!!
p.s. I'm lighter than I look ,Hot air don't weigh much.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
| | | Re: Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor
[Re: scooby_simon]
#151461
08/06/08 03:54 PM 08/06/08 03:54 PM |
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tampa, fl ksurfer2
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tampa, fl | "The reason F18's don't come is that they will not win"
That is a pretty lame excuse. This year I crewed on a boat, next year I will be skippering for the first time. I will not win....I know that, but I'm still going. This race is as much an adventure and test of will as a race.
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
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