Ok guys am I missing something here, as far as I know the raised downhaul was simply a conveniance thing to allow better management of the top downhaul pulley blocks ( they used to bottom on the upper part of the boom swivel if you had anysort of shackle or rope arrangement below the lower edge of the sail ).

If you think there is something fishy here then out with it please as I think there was no intentional reason to circumvent any rules. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[quoteAnd I thought the downhaul eye was 6 inches from the sail foot so when the sail doesn't measure because it's too big you can easily get rid of a bit of sailcloth without damaging the integrity of the design.....any ideas Matt, Geert ] [/quote]

Now Mark innuendos whether they have a Welsh humour attached or not doesn't always read well ( particularly for the non native Welsh folks of the world ) and can lead to all sorts of rumours flying about.

Your reasoning about the possibility of oversize sails is about factual as me saying your sail must be bigger than mine as you keep getting turned over in high winds ( well you did at the Mumbles meet <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). Having put a Landy sail on top of the GP sail, its surprising how little different they are,ever so slightly more in the top and ever so slightly less at the bottom. From first hand experiance they have the same area. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Are you coming up to Grafham with the Blade or the Stealth ?

Nothing fishy at all; I wanted the blocks higher up to stop them fouling the gooseneck whenh the DH is on hard.

Yes.

I only mentioned Matt and Geert because their mainsails were measured at Zandvoort. The outcome was that they were oversized, so Matt took out a chunk of main between the foot and downhaul clew and Geert removed the same area from the leech. Neither were very happy in having to do this.
P.S I added almost 1kg of lead to the top of my mast to comply with the mast tip weight rule <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> but it was only temporary.

Why temporary? You mean you removed it? So you are no longer F16 compliant? So we can protest you? (says the man who just bought a boat and has no idea of its weight or its compliance...)

Ahh so there was a little background info that I didn't know about. I reckon Mark that the weigh in and measurement regimme at Mumbles was pretty spot on, well thought out, laid back and done with a minimum of fuss and bother, well done the Mumbles club. One can only hope other venues are as laid back.

My Blade came with an Ullman originally. There was some dissatisfaction with these sails. I found it was too flat for sailing 2-up and the top wouldn't hold its shape properly when sheeted hard in moderate winds. I've since bought a Landenberger with a full cut for sailing 2-up, and it's much better. That said, I still use the Ullman when sailing 1-up as I've had some good results with it. I think Ullman are a franchise so what you'd get from the UK may be very different from my sail which came from the US.

If I were you I'd be looking at either the GP or Landenberger mains.

As for kites, all I can say is that Mark P was bloody quick downwind with his new GP kite when I sailed against him at Carnac and Mumbles.

Paul

Totally agree GP kites are quick!

FYI

Jay Glaser used to be the person making the cat sails at Ulman until he reopened his own loft. So once upon a time, an Ulman sail in the US was a Glaser. Now, I'm not sure.

Based on the exchange rate, the Glaser sounds like a very good value. He is currently making a lot of Blade sails, F18 sails, and A-cat sails. He has not done a Stealth, but I'm sure he could do it if you chose to go that route.

Charlie Ogletree works at Ullman and does a lot of their multihull sails.

Having watched the local A cat fleet try different sail makers... including all of the ones being discussed..

Go Local... if the sail maker measures your mast and factors in your crew weight... and is a pro.... You will get a good sail.

I have seen two instances when the big names send their all purpose sail for guys and it looks like crap and does not work on their mast for them.

Go local! Your sail maker can make any changes if needed.

The lead was taken off the mast tip when I dropped the mast for the journey home. You probably could protest me at any future event but you and me both have the same masts so it probably wouldn't be your wisest move. I think this all boils down to measurement certificates which just isn't happening here in the UK at present but I'm sure in the next year or two things will move on, boats and equipment will have to provide certificates at registration for the bigger events.

Hi all,

sounds like the Stealths need to lower their gooseneck <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, then you wouldn't need to put downhaul blocks up the sail.

Having the correct tip weight mast is very important though <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. It is easy to check your own at home as I did with "Altered" and add strength or weight as needed. Don't just leave it for the measurers. The difference in weight aloft makes most difference to upwind performance in chop and we all know that nobody wants to cheat. Off course their is no need to check if you have a Superwing Alloy Mast.

Right, but we are all to big around here and moving the gooseneck any lower will prevent us from going under the boom when tacking <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This said this is a non issue with my small Stealth pre-F16 main, with a luff of 7.43m (According to the SCHRS site) instead of 8.10m (the max allowed by the F16 rules) it means the sail sits higher. But this raise an interesting question: I assumed the mast of the Stealth was the same as the more recent Stealth F-16, am I right? Or did the mast length changed when the boat was F16 optimised?

Lets get one thing perfectly straight. There is NO black band rule in the F16 class rules !

It is another one of those things like the F16 constitution that the GC wants and acts like it exists but it has never been voted upon and therefor it can not be part of the F16 class rules.

Also there is absolutely no mentioning of the black bands in the publically available F16 rules, just as there is no mentioning of any AGM or constitution.

http://www.formula16.org/content/view/13/36/lang,en/

I would really like to propose to the GC to get with the real world and handle these things properly.

Wouter

GC have said nothing about this as far as I know, Simon did.

I dont find any black band rule either, so there can not be one for now. On the other hand, somebody might be working on a proposal for the members.

Lets get one thing perfectly straight. There is NO black band rule in the F16 class rules !

I'll stop looking for one now! Thanks Woulter....

The GC has taken up a black band measurement in the official F16 measurement form when no such item is even mentioned in the F16 class rules.


When my boat was measured it came back with a note that my blank band measurement was "an issue". It was no use arguing that the F16 class as a whole doesn't even know what a blank band measurement is.

I now have the questionable honour of having an issue with a F16 rule that doesn't exit.

Wouter

Whopsee, sounds like a communication issue which should be resolved.