Hiding from Ding.

I thought Johny Lovel and Charlie Olgoltree had one that he raced in the "Little America's Cup" and also Pete Johnstone had one that he pimped and painted silver metal flake or something.

I always liked the boat, it was very demanding in a blow and had no business being out in the open ocean in big waves and wind, of a Worrell type race, but in a bay or lake in a good blow it was great fun.

Since the Jav 2 there have been many new F18HT designs that have addressed the submarine bow syndrom. You should check out Andi's web site, he has pictures of most of the new designs.

Oh and It's faster than an Inter 20 unless you take it out in the big ocean waves.

I crewed for Andi one night in Switzerland in a local regatta, we finished in front of a pretty good Tornado team, boat for boat. But it was ideal HT conditions, where we could fly the hull most of the time and they only half the time.

It is a demanding boat to sail well, like a big A cat with a spinnaker.

Allow me to correct describe the situation. The F17 carbon mast has been replaced and over the years there have efforts to do the same with the I-20 mast. However, the latter is NOT a done-deal at this time.

In Europe I've seen only a handful of alu masted I-20's, but these were all try-outs as far as I can determine. It is common knowlegde however that the I-20 carbon masts are ludicrously expensive to replace when broken. Luckily they hardly ever break. Quotes seem to run well above 5000 bucks both in US$ and Euro's. I seem to remember quotes around 7000 bucks even, but that is from memory. I'm not sure why the retail prices are such.

Wouter

I have never seen an ali mast on an I-20. There was never an option from Performance Europe. Any that any that there are would have been retro-fit replacements. I can't remember what I paid for my replacement - about £2000 I think.

I heard i20 mast price is $11k in the US.

What's a new i20 cost?

I have heard rumors that a brand new I 20 is about $19,000, boat and sails only, no trailer, or box, or beach wheels, which will add another $2,000 or so...

If $11,000 of that is just the mast, then you are getting a pretty good deal on all the rest of the parts and sails! Maybe we should just buy them new, without the mast, for $8,000, and sell all the new parts, sails and hulls on Ebay for $10,000!

OR, buy a new alum. wing mast for $3,000, rig it up and go to an INter 20 regatta, get Alex and Nigel to sail it, kick everyone's butt, and watch the price drop on those $11,000 masts! Now that would be funny!

Timbo, I believe the price is closer to $24k new. I believe thats what I heard last time this topic came up.

It is $19,600 from my old dealer, but I don't think that includes the trailer and a box?

http://www.kolius-sailing.com/boats.cfm?p=6960&g=1&b=43

Doug

$24K?? Ouch! No wonder nobody's buying them...

Can they make a carbon wing-mast for it? At the price they rumor for a mast, might as well upgrade...

The carbon wing masts that the Jav 2 came with were very nice, but since Boeing and Airbus are buying up all the carbon they can get to build new airplanes, I doubt it would be much cheaper, if at all, to do a new section in carbon. Until supply catches up with demand, it's going to keep getting more expensive for a -carbon- anything.

The latest rumor I heard from a very reputable source who is extremely involved in the class and manufacturing of the boats is that they might be looking into the marstrom Tornado mast.

Yes its shorter but something is going to have to change if the class is to survive. $11k masts == no new boats... Simple as that.

So what would you say is the maximum realistic USD asking price for a new boat - 20 ft, 18 ft, 16 ft? No trailer, boxes, wheels, etc.

I'd love to see $12K max for new boat, but I'd think $15k is an acheivable goal for mfg. companies given the technology (and carbon) in today's boats, right?

At the $15k mark, I wouldn't expect a lot of mfg. sponsorships, marketing, etc. Keep it cost-effective to own and support your product - that should keep owners doing the marketing for you...

We all want to be rock stars like FoN "Mr. Alicante", but the reality is that for most of us, this is just another expensive hobby. The higher the price tag, the fewer of us can enter the fray...

Things like Alter Cup are great in that they place a number of lightly used (and professionally tuned) boats on the market at decent prices, but you really can't ask mfg. to do more than that. They have to eat too, you know...

I must say that I am a bit surprised to read that some are considering going to Marstrøm to save money. Marstrøm is usually pretty expensive, building in Sweden, high quality etc. so this is surprising.

Hope they approach Marstrøm the right way as Gøran himself is very attached to the Tornado class and I think he do those masts without making a lot of money from them.

We all want to be rock stars like FoN "Mr. Alicante",

And I've already got my Rock Star name picked out, it's "Mr. Ala Carte" Yeah, I'll have the pie, AND the cake!

Guys, 11k for a carbon mast is plain daft, J P at Stealth Marine builds good quality tear drop section masts and by memory they were not a lot over 2K pounds. His moulds would be long enough for your requirements. Drop him an Email and I'm sure he would be able to supply a class with their particular requirements ( and he has the 18HT hull moulds still )

there are plenty of places that can supply the mast we need.

its just that there's no movement by Nacra (US or Nacra EU) to make the change.

If the kit suits and the manufacturer won't play ball why not go it alone? There is plenty of precedence for this. It is not likely that many new boats will be sold with inflated prices so why not bite the bullet and go for "equipment accepted by the class association"?
There have been numerous manufacturers who have been left in the &*5! by not listening to/working with its customers.

Cheshirecatman

how much say does the average N20 sailor have in how Nacra produces a SMOD boat?

How the manufacturer produces a boat is one thing! How the sailors/class associations agree to race them is a different matter. If the manufacturer gets a reputation for ripping off existing sailors class associations have been known to 'break away'. Very few SMOD boats continue without change. Who would risk investing in a new SMOD cat from a manufacturer with a record of not working with its existing customers? Very often a MFR will impose change, generally based upon profit rather than design/quality issues. Sailors do have a voice (and wallets), they just need to use both effectively.

Cheshirecatman