It was a LOT worse under the the pre 2007 rating.

A one up boat will lose out on the jibes provided he/she uses the wire when the spinnaker is up and the two up boat only has the crew on the wire.
I also think this is the case when not using the wire. The extra set of hands means the boats can be jibed with minimal loss of speed so there is no need for the two up boat to accelerate. On the other hand it is much harder to not lose speed on the one up boat so it may need that acceleration mentioned by Mark..

I went to a couple of seminars by Darren Bundock (organised by TonyJ) where he pointed out in the Tornado fleet in general the skipper does not go out on the wire downwind because it slows down the jibes.
In fact if the skipper stays in they lose almost no time on the jibes as they don't drop speed.

I think that if the one up boats are not losing time on the jibes then the two up boats crew work could be improved.

Regards,
Phill

The RYA don't encompass, promote single handed long distance yacht racing for the very same reasons.
As for the C mark rounding scenario if another boat had been adversely affected by the one making a complete hash of it then they could always apply for redress. However, if they luffed up without giving the boat in trouble enough time to react then they could be protested. In some cases they could also be luffing from behind which I think is still a no no?

Phill, I used to wire downwind on the Inter 20 but on the Blade I have found it is faster, A to C, to sail it deep on two hulls in a good blow, rather than wire, especially when alone on a shifty, puffy day. Every time I have wired, I have stuffed the bows deep, going round the forestay more than a few times, and that is slow.

At our last regatta I was passing F18's and I-20's downwind, who had crew on the wire, as I was sailing nearly as fast as they but going much deeper by sitting at the back of the tramp, for a shorter distance sailed. I was catching them at C mark...untill I had to slow down and snuff the kite. What I need is a 30 lb. string monkey to get that thing down while I steer round the mark, on the inside of them instead of the outside. And I -hate- doing fiberglass reapair work so I don't like to put myself into a possition that might require it.

Oh really? What F18s were you passing Tim?

I think it was you and Brian on Sunday, and I think it was Terry and Rick on their I-20 in another race. I looked back after rounding A mark with you guys and saw you going higher, one out on the wire, while I was going lower, not on the wire, but it could have been that I was in a puff and you weren't, as there were many puffs and everyone seemed to be in a different wind most of the time.

My point was that me going on the wire downwind while Uni in any good wind usually ends with me swimming, and swimming is slow.

How'd you end up swimming on Day 1? Were you guys going upwind or down when you crashed?

I managed to flip going upwind on day 2, race 2 I think, when I had overstood and tried to bearoff in a puff but didn't get my weight back fast enough to avoid a face-plant.

http://home.comcast.net/~smalldog266/smalldog266/Results/WildCatSpina.htm

On my boat we crashed downwind after leaving the shore and missing race 2 and the rest of the races for the weekend for that matter.

I dont recall you passing us on sunday and I was rubber necking, thats why I asked. The results dont say who passed who by the marks the are the result of the entire race. You sailed good, no doubt, but I dont remember seeing you pass us and it was only us and Jennifer on day two.

You guys rounded, set the spin, gybed, went left (looking downwind) and you went out on the wire, I think. I was already around just ahead of you, going deeper, much deeper, after my gybe I looked back and you guys were holding high, going fast, but higher than me, as I was going deep.

I can't say for sure which race or which leg, but let's get Terry to tell us what he saw being on the mark boat, as he had a much better view of relative positions, boat speed, etc. It's very hard to have any objective view when you are on the cat, or out on the wire, trimming the spinn, steering, watching for puffs, etc. I know I didn't see a lot of stuff and nearly hit an A cat! I found when I tried to heat it up too much, I put the bows under to the mast, a couple of times, so after that, I was trying to get it to plane instead.

Terry, you out there?

Tim,

Good result you got there !

http://home.comcast.net/~smalldog266/smalldog266/Results/WildCatSpina.htm

And while both you and the MC's were racing of the new lowered USPN handicap. Still respectively 3rd and 1st ! Well done

And I agree fully with your assesment, F16 1-up under spi deep+sit-in = fast.

Wouter

The final results don't tell the whole story, I didn't sail that well, I never beat Ding on day 1, even on corrected time, and he didn't sail on day 2. I had many "issues" from a crash going upwind, to sailing through the start line (DSQ R7) to a broken cross bar (DNS R5) and the closest I ever got to Matt and Gina was race 8, about 45 seconds behind them. My 3rd was due more to 2 of the F18's not sailing than my skill. It was a "war of attrition". What was that old Uni number again? ;^)

You could always trade-in for an Nacra 17 ... I hear they have a pretty good number (especially if you want to race portsmouth---and I KNOW YOU DO!).

Yeah, right!

Hey, from what you were able to see on the mark boat, was there any advantage going downwind, to the F18's that were wired vs. running deep and not on the wire?

And nice Avatar by the way, you got my good side...

Not really, we were above A mark and once you guys rounded it was difficult to tell. It was interesting to see the rounding (I saw some pretty bad ones)...easily losing boats 3, 4 up to 5 boat lengths.

If you thought that was funny, you should have seen what was going on down at C mark!

Hey Tim,
From what I have noticed from Fred and Jennifer on their F18 over here at GYC is they like to run Hot downwind. Now maybe having an additional 150# of hull weight under them helps or a longer waterline. Matt has told me on the Blade, apparent around 90 degrees and go.

What I have found is that because of the shorter waterline and narrow, knife like bows of the Blade, when it's blowing hard, if you try to heat it up on one hull, you will stuff it and that slows you down a lot or could send you swimming.

If instead you go deep, sit as far back as you can, and bear off in advance of the next puff, you can get it to go nearly dead downwind on a plane with both bows up out of the water, aiming directly at C mark. This is how I ended up sailing through the start line in race 7. I was holding high of it but then got a big puff, had to bear off, and passed about 5 feet inside of the end pin. It was either do that or swim, and since there were no other boats in the area, I figured it was not closed at that time.

If you want to get from A to C as quickly as possible, rather than moving the boat through the water as quickly as possible, this seems to work better than going higher and faster through the water over a longer distance.

In medium wind I have found it goes faster on one hull, as long as you don't start to bury the low bow. As soon as you start to bury the bow in every puff, you are better off to go lower on two hulls, throw your weight back and try to pop the bows up. I pull both board half way up and put my foot on the back of the board to keep from sliding foreward in a nosedive.

The 90 degrees is a good starting place to begin and stear from there to get as much hull speed as possible. Fast down wind is doing what you need to do to maintain hull speed. Moving your weight around is critical (This may include trapping but does not require it) In winds less than 20-22 I have found by maintaining a slight forward apparent wind we are as fast and as deep as any of the F18s and I 20s that we typically race. If your hull flys without any forward acceleration you need to do something to use that power. Up to that 20+ wind we have found it is more important to move back than out. After 20 you can start trapping or depower depending on your comfort and crew skill/dexterity. (Make sure you only move back when absolutely required. Dragging the stern is slow in all points of sail.)

Always sail your own wind. Remeber, what looks like a hot angle form your view may in reality be low and slow from the point of view on board the other boat.