Don't be a hater.

Yes please; I've been waiting 9 months now...............

Here are the results from the Area L Alter Qualifier from September of 2008. Including times and wind conditions.
Unfortunately the winds were light most of the time. But when it did pick up to 8-10 a couple of times the F18s began to show thier stuff

Mostly there were A Cats and F18s there. We had 17 participants.

Check out the link it will show the info.
BBOD Regatta 2008

The wind speed ratings group Beaufort 2 with Beaufort 3.
This decision was made years ago when boats like the Hobie 16, 117 and 18 behaved pretty much alike through the wind ranges. It was WAY before Light weight boats like the A Class and Spinnaker boats were popular.

One issue that you highlight is how non linear the actual performance is for these two boats in this wind range.

What is needed for a better yardstick table is separate ratings for Beaufort 2 from Beaufort 3. This is tough because you need 100 races of data turned in from top of the fleet sailors racing each other in the wind ranges.

Where did you get that "100" figure? Or were you exaggerating to make a point?

The PN software is written in Fortran. A near dead language 25 years ago... (remember the y2K death watch) it has a limit to the number of variables it can handle.

All data is pre screened for being an outlier... IE the computed rating is 10 % faster or slower then the current rating... MIND YOU... the data is computed in the wind speed reported for the race.

The number of ratings used to calculate the rating is 100 data points in EACH wind speed. (If you did not roll in new data and kick out old data... the average would never change.)

Beaufort 2 data is tabulated separately from Beaufort 3 data and if memory serves for each wind speed but so far... the data don't reflect the performance difference and so 2 and 3 are lumped together. Again... it's not just A class and F18's to consider....the Hobie 16, 17 and 18 performance are still not going to vary much over the B 2-3 range.

This analysis was done a couple of years ago... So Darline may have more data with light boats, spin boats and secondary yardstick boats to evaluate. It may have changed since then.... but since the Area L results only contribute 6 or 7 data points....AND the race did not have a well sailed secondary yardstick boat.... eg a hobie 16 Its tough!

The DPN rating is weighted to the B4 rating and is some formula of the 4 wind ratings.... (new boats B4 = DPN)

So... if you don't include an accurate wind speed for the race then your data becomes difficult to use.

Quote - Scooby

"[/quote]" To answer Codblow (again) SCHRS has to make an assumption about crew weight, thus we use the worldwide average that is 75kg for an adult. Some will be lighter, some will be more.

We CANNOT implement a "actual crew weight" element as this would:

A, mean at EVERY EVENT and every race you have to weigh EVERYONE and re-calc the rating - it would be impossible.
B, Protests on weight of the crew anyone? - another nightmare
C, Inaccurate or differing scales? Had a big curry the night before?

We will not be implementing a "Crew weight" based rating element. End of story. [/quote]"


Scooby I didn't ask any questions , nor sought any answers from you .

I'm well aware as I said of SCHRS stance on anomalies , and don't need things rammed down my throat as if I'm some sorta half wit !!!

SCHRS is your rule , your running it , good , I can live with that .(and thanks for doing it too - schrs has certainly improved cat racing )

Any measurement rule created will have anomolies in it - thats why you will always get bandits and dogs , whatever you do .just look at monohull racing and the shed load of money spent on rating rules the computing power put into it and decades of developement .

All I was trying to say , with the new RYA PY system we have a unique opportunity to merge the systems together which could iron these things out .

I'm not talking of weight of sailors here.

But it is concievable that as time progresses and the rya py improved and quicker database develops , we could - shock , horror, god forbid , look at personal handicaps , for club racing , we all know what a can o worms in the past this has been and a crock of sh~t , but, could be an answer to dismal turnouts in club racing throughout uk.

goes without saying champion ship and event racing would still be on boat rating under whatever system

(can't believe I just said that !)
Still look at golf , works for them ,

I thought it was actually Cobal that it was written in..but very similar regardless (I used to program both).

It definitely needs updating and the statistical analysis could use some advancement. I have a lot of thoughts regarding this but will not waste my effort if you guys see fit to kill it.

Please no! Golf handicaps are easily manipulated and often are! Let's not speak of this again.

After taking a looking at your avatar I would rather race boats too

Hey- Wouter is an Engineer. Lets hire him to Fix the Fortran!
MWHHHaaaaa!

Flip flopping my way back out from under a rock, At least we can agree that there needs to be a solution between the two major systems, Thus measure a boat using SCHRS and tweak out any bandits or up any murdered boats with a PY fudge factor. The two major problems then are is who controls the fudge factors and how to you collect all the global PY data.

One question on the SCHRS rule, is it designed as a windward/ leeward, circular random, Olympic or Liner random course?

And why is US sailing not promoting ISAF's SCHRS, and do we have a global cat association?

To reiterate an earlier post, US SAILING administers the Portsmouth Yard Stick along with several other ratings systems for monohulls. The Portsmouth Committee has that continuing task, and Darline Hobock is the chair. Bob Curry is a member-at-large on that committee.

The ISAF Multihull Commission was approached last October about possibly taking over the administration of SCHRS, but the issue was not decided since a great deal more discussion is needed before making a decision.

The US Multihull Council has accepted an agenda item for the Spring meeting in Denver this March to discuss the rising tide of complaints about the Portsmouth ratings of small catamarans, and hear suggestions on how to improve things or make changes for the better.

"The US Multihull Council has accepted an agenda item for the Spring meeting in Denver . .. ." Glad to hear it. Addressing concerns is always positive. If a solution proves unattainable, at least you tried.