I am wondering how the tacking sequence is affected by sailing up wind with one rudder?.What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of the one rudder up?Is there certain windspeeds where it is more advantages to use this technique

If the air is really light i think it might help some but if you get in a puff need both down to help. As for tacking them up and down if i remeber it was in Rick's book that said the tornado guys worked on this at one time but did not find it that much faster for all the effort to do it.

Jody Abrams
H16 Modified 59467

If you lok at pictures from recent worlds all the top teams seem to be using the one rudder up even in big wind

In H16 Trapseat racing when racing up wind, we raise one rudder up especially in light winds or long runs but always put the rudder down for a tack. If a lot of tacking is involved, I keep the rudder down or in very gusty or turbulent situations. I find I always do better than those who do not lift a rudder, again especially in light winds. The Tornado may not gain from this technique but it seems the H16 does.

You do it in medium to strong wind conditions, if you have rudders that are tending to have a spin out. Rudders are twisted in the water, if they are not made from Carbon. The drag and the spape of the standard rudders and the black EPO rudders also cause cavitation.
All this is reduced, if you lift one rudder in more wind.
In light wind conditions, it does not help at all.
Also invite to our seminar, see www.hobiefleet32.org
We will address all these things there.

Fritz

Wow Fritz are you saying in light winds that lifting your windward rudder does not help? In light winds when doing the mild thing, getting ones weight forward, and lifting the rudder I have see personally the improvements as compared to not doing this. Seems to make sense that the less drag you have the faster you will go in light winds. Also, you keep bring up the seminar and I am sure most of this forum will not be able to make it, so the discussion here would be appropriate. Thanks.

This is one of the things of personal preference. I know many of people who kick their rudders up and many of people dont. When the winds become to strong say 25 knots plus, i normaly have them in full time unless i feel i can't control the boat. I also believe it is alot faster when sailing in the light winds to have one rudder kicked up unless you have enough weight at the front of the boat and it starts to become to hard to steer (have seen done) PUT BOTH BACK IN PLEASE. I normaly have one rudder kicked up on reaches but on the up wind leg i have them both in in any thing above 20knots. Its not hard to kick them up and not hard to put them down if you drop them just before the tack.

Problems with your rudder being up is well if you forget to put them down good luck steering. in waves on a reach the rudders go in the wave and make it hard to steer. You cant ber away easily. More time wasting if you cant do it properly.

Advantages are less drag. Can make it easyer to stear if you rudders arn't set up right. Faster way of sailing.

Well work on it and have fun.

Jules

This argument about leaving a rudder down in 15kts+ of wind seems irrelavent.
In that much wind you should be flying a hull anyway, so only one rudder WOULD be in the water.
I don't know how anyone could come in of the wire, pop one rudder down, then pop the other up , climb on the wire and then catch the guys who left their rudders down.

I have forgot to put my rudder down after a downwind run, and my boat doesn't handle the same or go as fast. I do have the race rudders, which do not twist.

David

seems to be more of a Eur and Aust tecknique.I think gavin Colby does the one rudder up upwind

The Marstrom Tornado is one of the stiffest boats out their with very little deflection or twist between hulls combined with very efficient rudders.

In comparison to the H16 with it's elevated deck and slender hulls, twists and deflects a great deal more than the Tornado. Playing the main, crew placement, in concert with wave action create twist and deflection on the H16 and cause the rudders to NOT act in unison creating drag. (not to mention rudder slop)
But as you know it takes a lot of practice to be able to take advantage of this shortcomming.

It doesn't take much to kick them up and down so try it an get use to it. I noticed in the Austrailan hobie cat nationals the only people who left their rudders down where the people at the end of the race course, all th top guys were doing it. Well I also noticed the french guys also do it and they are preety decent sailors to be beating some tigers around the track. I think it comes down to the type of boat which it works on and the hobies need it. In terms of having a hull flying, the rudders should be in the water since its faster to sail with the hull just skimming.


Jules

I wanted to add another thought: I usually do not kick-up a rudder unless I am sailing a long downwind in light air conditions. We do sail about 100 pounds overweight, and I have found the extra boat movement and me being too far aft, tacking rudders and such, really hurts our performance. We are much more competitive making smooth gybes and tacks, which are difficult, when the skipper is on the back of the boat tacking rudders.

It is impossible for our boat to go as fast as the light weight crews. We are heavy. But! This does not mean that we cannot be competitive. Tactics, is crucial. We have won races, taking the right windshift, from last to first place.

We sail in B Fleet, and sometimes can compete with many of the A Fleeters. Last year, the winds were non-existant, and I was struggling to get to the starting line to start with B Fleet. I finally made it to the line, when C Fleet was starting, and gave way because I didn't want to mess with their wind. We started after C Fleet and managed to finsih in the middle of B Fleet finish. All of this happened because I watched both fleets sail into a "dead hole", tacked to the other side of the lake, and passed most of the boats to the windward mark.

Food for thought,
David

I've been sailing upwind with one rudder one on many races for approx 10 years. I raise the rudder from single trap and higher winds. In lighter winds you need all the rudder area you can get!

Step by step
1. Your sailing with double trapped full power with one rudder.
2. Luff the boat gently and jump in from the trapeze when you are heading directly into the wind.
3. Crew jumps over to new side.
4. Skipper pops down the rudder, releases a bit of main sheet and jumps to the new side. Since the skipper is slow over to the new side because of the rudder you get the benefit of a roll tack also.
5. Gain speed on the new tack with both rudders and start sheeting in the main.

Now you have two options
Option 1
6. Gain some more speed so you can sheet the main in a bit more.
7. Raise the rudder
8. Go out in trapeze.
option 2
6. Go out in trapeze and sheet in the main for max power with both rudders.
7. Go further back in the trapeze and kick the tiller up with your rear foot to release the kick up.
8. Kneel in (stil in trapeze) and pull the last bit of rudder up to locked position.

/hakan

great advice,thanks.does this kicking the rudder up with your foot work on a hobie 16?

It is the Hobie 16 I'm talking about, forgot to mention that.

The key issue is that you can't sheet in the main after a tack and get speed on the boat with one rudder only. You need some speed before the rudders have enough "bite".

/hakan


Picture was taken during a Hobie raid in the Swedish archipelago a couple of years ago.

Hi Haken
I took a gander at your web site.Some great sailing shots.just wish I could translate the Swedish mag into english looks like a good read.
Do you ever have problems with your rudder comming down after you start sheeting in?
Mike

You must pull the tiller so far so you get the rudder up to the locked position, otherwhise it will fall down and drag behind the boat and it will be almost impossible to steer!

When you sail with one rudder the boat must be sailed "clean", that means no pinching and never loose boat speed. If you loose speed the rudder will stall quickly and you willm be forced head into the wind and stop, and loose a lot!

Sailing with one rudder is not always the highest priority. Use both rudders during the start and for short tacks.

/hakan

Hi harken, you have given great advice and i agree with almost every thing. Well you can kick the rudder up first before picking up speed, all you hav to do is steer more with your sails which is ok but i feel it can be a bit slow but you dont have to worry about it when your trapezing.

Jules