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West System - Six10 #176072
04/25/09 12:50 PM
04/25/09 12:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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I知 calling out to all the sailors to see if anybody has used West Systems Six 10. Jake have you tried this yet? Great concept I read about it in West System mag that comes out quarterly. I just bought a tube from West Marine. I bit pricey but if it works like I want it to worth the price. It comes in a caulking gun tube, mixes when you use it and it is thickened.

I want to use it to glue the bead and cove of the divinycell foam (H-60) for the TMS-20 instead of mixing West System epoxy with 404. The information from West seems to make this stuff look good. I知 looking for any hands on real world experience.

Here is a link http://www.westsystem.com/ss/six10-introduction/ to West Systems.

I壇 like input from anybody who has used this product.



Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

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Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #176079
04/25/09 04:09 PM
04/25/09 04:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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You need to make sure that is sands down easily, for when you rough fair the foam.
I used pu woodglue, but I think that you said that are going to vac bag so you are right to use epoxy. 410 would does the job a bit more economicaly than 610


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #176082
04/25/09 04:57 PM
04/25/09 04:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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A single tube?

So you can use a regular caulk gun?

The Proset stuff is thikened epoxy, but you need a special double barrelled gun, which is $180. A regular HD special caulk would be a big improvement.

Last edited by bvining; 04/25/09 04:58 PM.
Re: West System - Six10 [Re: bvining] #176087
04/25/09 09:31 PM
04/25/09 09:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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I'll have to check out 410.

I like the idea of the regular caulking gun. I may get a get a air powered caulking gun from harbor freight sales if they are cheap enough.

I'll use this to edge glue the foam strips. If done correctly it is not suppose to spill out of the cove and bead, so I'm sure some will slop to the outside of the strip on the compound curves. I may need more then one tube and you can buy extra mixing ends. When it comes out of the end it is mixed and ready for action. So if you do not use the whole tube at one work session you pull off the mixing end toss it, cap the tube. Next time you need it put a new mixing end and off you go.

Mike


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #176167
04/26/09 04:45 PM
04/26/09 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by TheManShed
I知 calling out to all the sailors to see if anybody has used West Systems Six 10. Jake have you tried this yet? Great concept I read about it in West System mag that comes out quarterly. I just bought a tube from West Marine. I bit pricey but if it works like I want it to worth the price. It comes in a caulking gun tube, mixes when you use it and it is thickened.

I want to use it to glue the bead and cove of the divinycell foam (H-60) for the TMS-20 instead of mixing West System epoxy with 404. The information from West seems to make this stuff look good. I知 looking for any hands on real world experience.

Here is a link http://www.westsystem.com/ss/six10-introduction/ to West Systems.

I壇 like input from anybody who has used this product.



No, I've never used it - though we do use small Locktite brand self-mixing epoxy kits at work for some of our assemblies. they're probably about 4oz and cost about $30 each...a little pricey.


Jake Kohl
Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Jake] #176200
04/27/09 06:31 AM
04/27/09 06:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30
L
LCD Offline
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LCD  Offline
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L

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I used the Six10 and it works great. Used it when joining the two hull halves of the LR3 ACAT. That boat is strip planked foam, 3/8" thick. But when I stripped the hull foam I use straight 105-205 lightly rolled onto the bead edge of the foam. Much quicker and cheaper.

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #176264
04/27/09 02:49 PM
04/27/09 02:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,223
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by TheManShed
I知 calling out to all the sailors to see if anybody has used West Systems Six 10. Jake have you tried this yet? Great concept I read about it in West System mag that comes out quarterly. I just bought a tube from West Marine. I bit pricey but if it works like I want it to worth the price. It comes in a caulking gun tube, mixes when you use it and it is thickened.

I want to use it to glue the bead and cove of the divinycell foam (H-60) for the TMS-20 instead of mixing West System epoxy with 404. The information from West seems to make this stuff look good. I知 looking for any hands on real world experience.

Here is a link http://www.westsystem.com/ss/six10-introduction/ to West Systems.

I壇 like input from anybody who has used this product.



If you know someone with a Port Supply account for West marine, they had it for less than $4.00 a tube. probably a typo but they may honor it or it may have been an introductory thing. I was thinking of getting some for repairs at races.
Todd


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #176268
04/27/09 03:14 PM
04/27/09 03:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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I just applied for a Port Supply Account. I called West Systems and they say that the Six 10 product will work great for gluing the foam strips. I orders a pack of tips.

LCD - was that thick enough? did it run out over the edges?


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #176333
04/28/09 07:42 AM
04/28/09 07:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30
L
LCD Offline
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LCD  Offline
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L

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Posts: 30
The Six 10 was thick enough it didn't run. But like I said I wouldn't use it for gluing the coves and beads together. You would be using more material than you need and it is expensive and real high integrity is not required in that glue joint. All you need is just enough to hold the strips together. The integrity comes in the the skins and the bond of skin to foam.
John Lindahl

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: LCD] #176400
04/29/09 05:11 AM
04/29/09 05:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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John,

Thanks for information on Six10. I have not cracked the tube yet. I spent last weekend ripping the foam strips and putting on the bead edge. Next weekend I値l be cutting the cove and ready to start planking the hull. I値l keep your advice in mind as I start planking. I think I値l need both methods depending on the curve, bend, and twist in some of the lines.

I understand that the skin laminate lay-up of the glass cloth is the bonding and strength of the composite hull. I知 working with the NA on a lay-up schedule specific to the changes we made in the shape of the hull and materials I am using.

Mike Shappell


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #177075
05/04/09 11:16 PM
05/04/09 11:16 PM
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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I got 88 feet of the smallest bead from one tube. It was great to work with but I figure I would need 5 tubes for 1/2 of the main hull. Looks like I'm going to use West 105 - 205 - and a powder such as 404 to make my own paste.

When I get my port account and if it is $4 a tube then OK.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #177109
05/05/09 08:49 AM
05/05/09 08:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Would this product work well for seating beams?

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Karl_Brogger] #177198
05/05/09 06:09 PM
05/05/09 06:09 PM
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Karl,
This is West System Epoxy so if you seat the beams with Six10 they will be glued down as a permanent bond. This is not a sealant so if you try to remove the beam you will be ripping gelcoat and fiberglass. Although not desired I'm going assume that there is some flexing going on at the beam attachment. I did not look at the boat you have if it is mention in your profile. If the beam is bonded to hull and there is flexing something will give and most likely it will not be the beam or the Six10. On my G-Cat I have a very secure beam to hull attachments, bolt through, and I've had beams split at the drill holes and glass split in very extreme conditions under heavy seas, wind, and weight.

My question would be what is the factor or thing that you are trying to achieve at the beam connection by using the Six10?

Mike


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #177211
05/05/09 07:38 PM
05/05/09 07:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,223
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Karl,
It's just a new delivery system(thickened unmixed West in a caulk tube). I used West system and fiberglass fibers to seat my beams. Just make sure you use a good mold release on your beams to pop them back out or you'll have the problems Mike is referring to.
Mike,
Seating the beams is just taking up the factory's slack. You use a mold release or wax (or both) on the beams and fill in the voids.
I ended up taking Eric Arbo's advice and getting a 13' X 26' party tent for a temporary shop.$369 off E-bay w/ free shipping. Just got it today but won't be able to do anything until after the little race next week.
Todd


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #177213
05/05/09 07:44 PM
05/05/09 07:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Karl,
It's just a new delivery system(thickened unmixed West in a caulk tube). I used West system and fiberglass fibers to seat my beams. Just make sure you use a good mold release on your beams to pop them back out or you'll have the problems Mike is referring to.


I was just thinking it would be easier than me screwing up a ratio when mixing. I also thought that covering the bottom of the beam in vinyl like the graphics guys use would be an easy way to get things to pop apart later on. Then again it might not work.

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Karl_Brogger] #177216
05/05/09 08:03 PM
05/05/09 08:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,223
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Karl,
It's just a new delivery system(thickened unmixed West in a caulk tube). I used West system and fiberglass fibers to seat my beams. Just make sure you use a good mold release on your beams to pop them back out or you'll have the problems Mike is referring to.


I was just thinking it would be easier than me screwing up a ratio when mixing. I also thought that covering the bottom of the beam in vinyl like the graphics guys use would be an easy way to get things to pop apart later on. Then again it might not work.


Get the pumps that ratio the West system. They're cheap like $10 or $12. Makes it alot harder to screw up.One pump of resin equals 5parts to one pump of hardener which equals 1part.Then mix in your thickener of choice. No problem.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #177220
05/05/09 08:33 PM
05/05/09 08:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Todd, you're forgeting one crucial factoid here. I'm an idiot.

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #177223
05/05/09 08:56 PM
05/05/09 08:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Karl,
It's just a new delivery system(thickened unmixed West in a caulk tube). I used West system and fiberglass fibers to seat my beams. Just make sure you use a good mold release on your beams to pop them back out or you'll have the problems Mike is referring to.


I was just thinking it would be easier than me screwing up a ratio when mixing. I also thought that covering the bottom of the beam in vinyl like the graphics guys use would be an easy way to get things to pop apart later on. Then again it might not work.


Get the pumps that ratio the West system. They're cheap like $10 or $12. Makes it alot harder to screw up.One pump of resin equals 5parts to one pump of hardener which equals 1part.Then mix in your thickener of choice. No problem.



On some boats it takes quite a lot of resin to fill the voids between the hulls and the beams so using self-mixing tubes would get pricy. All it takes is some car wax on the aluminum - epoxy doesn't like to stick to aluminum well to begin with - and they release with a slight bang on the underside of the beam with your fist.

DO NOT use 5200 or other similar product to "seal" the beams. You want to seat them. The idea is to firm up the joint and keep them from moving. A flexible filler doesn't do this AND it will definitely be impossible to separate the two later.


Jake Kohl
Re: West System - Six10 [Re: Jake] #177608
05/08/09 06:55 PM
05/08/09 06:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Jake is correct if you want to make a nice fairing get the small cans of west system 105-205 and some powder. Use the pumps, after a prime; the ratio is right on each time. Mix some powder to make a paste. You need to form it up and wax it up. A simple way would be to use duct tape on every thing, silver side up. Tape the beam, hull, and you could use cardboard to make the side fairings. Tape the cardboard in place to the hull. Then use wax car wax will work. Wax the **** out of it then pour the paste in there. Make the paste the consistence of peanut butter. Put your beam in place and let it dry. Remember tape wax cover everything that you do not want epoxy on. Plan for some slop. Make the paste thick so it does not run.

Wait a day then take it apart remove the tape. Wash the part in soap and water, sand slightly and paint


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: West System - Six10 [Re: TheManShed] #177609
05/08/09 07:14 PM
05/08/09 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Just a note I picked up 5 gallons of West 105 - with the correct amount of 209 hardner mixes 3-1(x-slow for tropics $$) pumps, and a roll of 1708 knitted biax -45 +45 with 3/4 oz mat 50" wide cloth for $925. Good price 50% off the cloth and 30% off the west epoxy. I would have liked to find cloth w/o the mat but a $900 roll turned into a $440 roll what is a little mat?

I should be done laying the foam this week-end on the 1/2 of the main hull. Heading for Harbor Freight to see if they have the Vac pumps in stock. Building a "Hot Box" for the rolls of cloth, getting sticky in SO FL. Starting to hit Ebay for a deal on Vac Bag materials. Hope to be fairing out the foam during the week and bagging the hull next week-end. Ya-hoooo starting to look like a boat.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

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