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Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: schwuppdiwubb] #17907
05/23/03 09:56 AM
05/23/03 09:56 AM
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MauganN20 Offline
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What's your home country? North Korea?
Europe loves America, it just dislikes its brainless president. Comments like yours are frightening.
But this is not a political forum.


Tell that to my friend Lauren, who went to France right in the thick of the dispute over Iraq.

She'll be glad to tell you about the 13 times she was spit on, on the street, assuming because she had a small american flag pinned on her backpack. Ask her about the restaurants that wouldn't serve her.

Yeah, you really love Americans, but not all of you.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: MauganN20] #17908
05/23/03 10:30 AM
05/23/03 10:30 AM
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Burlington, Vermont USA
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Kevin Rose Offline
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[Linked Image]


Kevin Rose N6.0na #215 Lake Champlain (New England's "west coast") Burlington, Vermont
Re: big brave french [Re: MauganN20] #17909
05/23/03 10:42 AM
05/23/03 10:42 AM
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samevans Offline
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Maughan,
Yeah, that is just like the big, brave french, to spit on a woman walking down the street.

Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: MauganN20] #17910
05/23/03 02:23 PM
05/23/03 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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Neb
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Neb
Our company is owned by Delachaux in France. We have very close ties with them. I have seen good and bad. On the bad side, I believe 100% that there are area's in France right now that if you are American, you can forget about any type of hospitality. Our VP of Sales was in Paris just two weeks ago. He is from Canada and speaks French very well. Anytime he spoke English in public, everyone stared and someone tried picking a fight with him one evening. He said there is a lot of anti-American sentiment.

On the good side, the engineering people I work with competely understand the difference between the politics and the friendship. They love coming to the US.

Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: flounder] #17911
05/23/03 06:30 PM
05/23/03 06:30 PM
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Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
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I will probably get flamed for this, but I have to try and explain what I feel about this situation.
I am very surprised to hear about people spitting at others on the street.
I am not surprised that ordinary French people are anoyed at the personal way Americans have reacted to a political decision by the French Government. (I will not get into a discussion on the rights or wrongs of the Iraq war.)
If any two countries have had disagreements over hundreds of years it is Ireland and England, we still do not agree politically about who should govern Northern Ireland. That's politics, but, we visit each other's countries, we have good friends, we attend each other's sailing events (when ferry prices allow), we do not boycott each other's products etc. The UK is an ally of the US in this war, but the British and the French are still visiting each other's countries, they are not attacking each other on the streets (unless there is a football match), or insulting each other. My son was racing at Carnac recently, there were 2 Irish Spitfires. The rest of the Spitfire fleet was a mix of French and British sailors - everyone got on well, no agression.
Why do Americans take it personally when anybody disagrees with them. They talk about people having freedom to make decisions. But then agresivly attack anyone who disagrees with them. I have seen it so many times on the old forum and now it is appearing on this one, with, what could be called, racist generalisations like the following: "Yeah, that is just like the big, brave french, to spit on a woman walking down the street."
People in Europe are talking about McCarthyism again rearing its ugly head. We hear about "Freedom Fries", "Boycott French Products" and "We should invade France next" etc.
Now, Americans are surprised at Europe's reaction. I can only say America has asked for the reaction it is getting.
The people on this forum have always been very helpful to any sailors who have problems, no matter where they are from - lets keep it this way.

PS I am just watching, on television, a French rescue team risking their lives trying to get a child from the rubble of the Algerian earthquake.



Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: Dermot] #17912
05/23/03 06:47 PM
05/23/03 06:47 PM
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Now, Americans are surprised at Europe's reaction. I can only say America has asked for the reaction it is getting.


I wont go into the reasons why the above statement is completely false in the interest of protecting the fragile peace on this board.

However, France will definitely have to rescue more than just one child from the rubble of an Algerian Earthquake to ameliorate the opinions of frenchmen inside Algeria. And you think we hated the french :P

well lets compare it to this [Re: MauganN20] #17913
05/24/03 08:17 AM
05/24/03 08:17 AM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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What will happen if I walk through Birmingham Alabama with a French flag spinned to my back pack ?

Worrying about being served will probably be the least of my worries.

This isn't one-sided guys, although some prefer to believe it is.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: well lets compare it to this [Re: Wouter] #17914
05/24/03 10:40 AM
05/24/03 10:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
sail6000 Offline
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Hi Wout

Its a shame the Worrell 1000 was cancelled,-
as an entrant I can forgive the errors as unintentional and hope things are set right .
{a thread topic beginning with the W-1000}

When Chirac and crew backed the U N resolution 1441 then after basically lieing to Colin Powell sided with Saddam and then calculated the lack of resolve to enforce the resolution to further Saddam,s regime by subversion and coersion attempting to influence numerous other countries and now understanding the extent of 12 billion in loans and interests as motive it is not going to be easy to forgive them.

Saddam slaughtered thousands and is responcible for the deaths of an estimated one million over his 30 year reign.

Difficult to argue in favor or support that for any except the extremely pompus .Seems the French would be well served to get rid of Chirac and crew ,--quickly .

The reason for distain towards Chirac and crews manipulations are well founded in fact.
-many of us have friends -family serving overseas ,-A very nice young man was killed in action in Iraq from my hometown ,-A huge service was held that thousands attended for him ,-this duplicated around the country numerous times.

Driving home from the Tybee 500 through West Virginia it was very noticable how proud everyone is of PFC jENIFER lYNCH the prisoner who was rescued by special forces .

Many recognize the U S very diverse often crass culture and the resentment of its influence ,-but hardly reasons that can ever equate to the political subversions that cost U S lives.
Hope you comprehend the difference --
comparing the two --

Cheesy politicians like Chirac are a brief unfortunate footnote in history , hope all recognize this .
I,m not in favor of banning French products built by people that may disagree completely with Chirac ,-but will condemb those like him .

Please spare me the distorted out of time sequence historionics in responce ,-heard them all -

Much of the world is in an ongoing war with terrorist organizations and factions , It is great to see so many Euro countries understand this and work together against it while attepting peace initiatives to resolve centuries old hatreds ,--These will take time .

Best regards
Carl

Let's keep it civil [Re: sail6000] #17915
05/24/03 12:36 PM
05/24/03 12:36 PM
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Kevin Rose Offline
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Although this thread has gotten pretty far off the topic of sailing, I do appreciate the comments from those who have chosen to contribute in a thoughtful manor. Those who have chosen to punctuate their remarks with inflammatory statements, however, run the risk of letting this forum disintegrate in the same way as the old forum, rather than focusing on the common ground that brings us all here (sailing!).

While the Iraq war remains an emotional topic, it’s not the only thing that seems to elicit the personal attacks here at catsailor.com. I have received personal e-mail from participants in this forum telling me that the south doesn’t need any more of my northern comments. (It is for that reason that I recently removed my e-mail address from my profile.) When something like that happens, I go through a period of thinking, “I don’t have time for this crap,” but my love of sailing cats brings me back to the table. The reality is that I haven’t found a better resource for the sharing of cat sailing ideas anywhere else on the web.

Please, let’s keep it civil.


Kevin Rose N6.0na #215 Lake Champlain (New England's "west coast") Burlington, Vermont
Re: well lets compare it to this [Re: Wouter] #17916
05/24/03 05:27 PM
05/24/03 05:27 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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The sad truth is that if you walk through Alabama with a French flag on your back a good number of the people probably wouldn't know what it is. I also doubt that many of the other 50% would really care. However, there are extremists everywhere - just like the "spitters" in France - and I'm sure you might find one or two if you hung out in a bar with said shirt.

Last edited by Jake; 05/24/03 05:29 PM.

Jake Kohl
Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: MauganN20] #17917
05/25/03 08:13 AM
05/25/03 08:13 AM
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Jacques Offline
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To Maugan:

Explain us what do you know about French Algeria relationship?

More generally, I am French, living in US. I cannot believe
how otherwise reasonable people got trap in the French bashing thing. France disagreed with US on the Iraq war matter. Is it a crime? Does it deserve such treatment? Does that means that wohever does not agree with the official line will be treated like this? Sorry, guys, but this is not my idea of the Democracy. It looks to me more like soviet union. By doing this You are very well undermining the Ideas your are defending when going to Iraq and You lose a lot of credibility.

Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: Jacques] #17918
05/25/03 09:05 AM
05/25/03 09:05 AM
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I said that I wouldn't instigate anything further. Lets just say that my senior thesis focused on the "French / Algerian relationship" if what happened in that state since 1832 could even be considered a "relationship."

Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: Jacques] #17919
05/25/03 01:26 PM
05/25/03 01:26 PM
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Burlington, Vermont USA
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Kevin Rose Offline
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Quote
To Maugan:

Explain us what do you know about French Algeria relationship?



Jacques,

For me, one of the most disturbing things about the Iraq war (and the Gulf War) was how it was treated by the media. Equally disturbing was how the American public accept what they hear from our "super bowl" style news coverage as the one truth. In today's age of global connectivity and the many perspectives available on the internet, I was amazed at how few sought to look beyond the spin that Fox News or CNN put on the stories.

I was in Mexico when the war began. No electricity. No TV. I learned via word of mouth. When I arrived back at a city with TV, the stations available were Mexican, German, and the BBC. There was quite a contrast to the coverage folks were watching at home in the US.

Let me follow up by saying that I am an eight-year veteran of the Air Force. I enlisted at the tail end of the Vietnam war. Following that, I spent 10 years working in a government office. Additionally, I spent time working as part of a US sponsored consulting team in the Gaza strip following the 1993 Oslo peace agreement. (I was working in Gaza when Arafat returned from exile in 1994.) During those experiences I had plenty of opportunity to compare the media view with my own perception of events on the ground. I can assure you that what you see on TV news channels does not accurately portray reality.

As to the question of how much Maughan knows about the French Algeria relationship . . . well, even in the ivory tower, the learning is not always hands on. (History is written by people, with their own cultural biases. Hence, you can study the same topic from universities on opposite sides of the world and get completely different views.)

The moral of the story is, if you can't be there yourself (and even if you are), remain open to a variety of perspectives. There's more to what's happening than what's being portrayed by the major news networks (that are tied very closely to business and political interests).

Drawing a phrase from the culture of my youth, "Peace, man."


Kevin Rose N6.0na #215 Lake Champlain (New England's "west coast") Burlington, Vermont
Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: Kevin Rose] #17920
05/25/03 06:12 PM
05/25/03 06:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
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[/quote]
Drawing a phrase from the culture of my youth, "Peace, man." [/quote]

STOP!
I don't join in the discussions as much as most of you.
Most of the topics are about cats which are mainly sailed in the US, and US events. When I think that I can be of some help I contribute.
Over the past year and a half I have followed the threads on this forum. From your postings I have got to know something about each of your personalities. You are all pasionate about your sailing and your cats. You all try to give advice and help each other. Up to now you have kept politics out of things. I am partly responsible for continuing this discussion. Let's get back to sailing and let this thread die. Let this be the last post on the subject.
I had a great sail today. After a wet and very windy few weeks, the sun shone again. I think that Summer is finally here.
Peace to everybody.


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Worrell Canceled - Press Release Just In! [Re: Dermot] #17921
05/26/03 12:14 AM
05/26/03 12:14 AM
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I think thats something we can all agree on

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