The M20 is 2.9 meters wide and the first 6 boats to finish on 2009 Texel was M20 with sloop rigs. The team that came first had an extra wide M20, I think it was 3.6 meters wide. Marstrom is now building new wide beams for some M20 in Holland....

Some M20 boats tested the newly developed "banana" boards from Marstrom. It's hard to tell if you gain much with them but it sure lifts the boat!

/hakan

Why doesn't Nacra just start building a new 20-footer?
All they have to do is get a new design, make a mold, decide on a new rig, keep as many parts as posibble and start building.
How hard could it be?

Because once the mast situation is OFFICIALLY CLARIFIED then there's not a problem with their current 20 footer.

IMHO another advantage of the banana-boards is that they can get more surface without adding more draught, something which could be very important for Texel which has lots of shoals etc.

Here some pics I took of the boards.

perhaps we should just save up for an x-40!

Beaver 20, is this the new Team Chums boat?

I'll quote Jack on this one; "Why do we need to beat ourselves?" They did it once to the 6.0 with the I20. Another one with a raised rear beam would be cool. I guess the designer of the Beaver never responded to the SCHRS question? Where did he go? I would like to buy one so I could say I rode the Beaver hard this weekend and not get in trouble.

We could probably fill a whole thread with these jokes
Btw, according to their website the target SCHRS is 0,915

The extra Wide M20 (M20 Vampire to give it the full name) is William Sunnucks boat. I should get a chance to have a proper look at it at the weekend.

Quick question about the Beaver 20, will they still call it a Snuffer for the spinnaker bag or they change the name to a Muffer?

Sorry had to ask

Ask the right people and you could have a CFR20 built for you!
(we've been kicking the idea around)

Viper is built near Bangkok in Thailand.

Capricorn is built on an island called Batam in Indonesia (across the Straits from Singapore).

Same company, AHPC, builds and sells these boats, but outsourced to different suppliers for the hulls.

Share parts like beams when they are assembled in Bendigo, Australia.

Tim,

We are working on a solution here.

Main goals below 4000 in cost, speed about 25% slower then a F18, looks like a true catamaran and 60 kg ready to sail and assembled from all basic parts in less then 15 min. (car toppable). With all component made in respectable nations.

Wouter

better change that before you have to define it

good points, Matt. In your experience, what's an average run size to maintain the most supply cost/tooling/labor efficiency? 20 boats? 50 boats?

A new base model infusion (no race package) is right around $19,200... that is as of a few months ago when I looked.
I was quoted just slightly more for a Capricorn.

Well let's talk about the "cost to build" a Nacra Infusion F18 vs. a Nacra Inter 20.

Let's assume that due to the outrageous cost of Carbon, they are going to now use the same mast on the I20 as the Infusion, but a bit longer. (is it 2 feet?)

I will defer to all of you who have owned BOTH the Infusion and the I20 when I ask what is the difference in all the little parts:

The blocks, main, jib, spin, are they the same?

The rigging, is it the same gage wires, just longer?

The spin poles, same tubes, just longer?

The jib track, same on both? I heard the jib is the same.

I'm all for affordable big boats. If a big company such as Nacra or Hobie (really the only two big cat companies we have, right?) can cross-utilize as many parts on the two boats as possible, that should help bring the "cost to build" down, right?

So the cost differential between the two should be minimal, it should only be the extra costs of the longer hulls, larger spin and main, longer mast.

The builder should be able to get a discount since they are buying so many of the -same parts- for both boats, right?

I've not sailed on an Infusion, I don't know how much of their equipment could be put on a "new model" Inter 20 without any modifications, but if I were the builder, to keep costs down, I would try to use as many as possible on ALL my boats, from a 14-16-18-20 foot boat. Yes, the 14 might have some "stout" blocks on it, and maybe a little heavy rigging, using the same stuff as an Inter 20, but that should lead to a longer life, right?

Then you could market is as "Overbuilt, Strong like Bull, great for beginners who might pile it up from time to time." right?

If instead you are going to try to use different sized blocks, sheets, wires, beams, mast sections, etc. on every different sized boat, well, of course your parts costs are going to be much higher, leading to a more expensive boat, leading to less boat sales, right?

I'm still failing to see where we don't have an affordable 20-footer...

It seems that all the F18's are in the $18k-21k range. A new Nacra 20 with an aluminum mast is in the $20k-21k range. That's not too much of an increase considering the size differences in hulls, mast, and sails.

If you want to debate on how to bring overall costs down (labor, materials, overhead), then I think you might be headed somewhere.
Seems like we're just typing to watch ourselves type.

Todd, no race package . . . what does that mean?

no company finds it an economically viable venture at this time (is always the answer)