If you where getting a new boat, what you you get. Want to be able to sail both uni and sloop.

Doug

Falcon, Stealth?

Falcon is a Blade right? Both come from Matt. I just don't want to have to ship a boat. Stealth would have to be shipped.

Doug

haven't we down this road with you before Doug? I thought you had settled on an 'F'/I/N 17?

So the poll is purely for the US market? I think price is a big factor in that equation. What is the asking price delivered in the US?

A Falcon is not a Blade, they are two different designs.

PS: The Viper is shipped to the US, but you dont have to handle that bit yourself as the importer/agent handles it.

Are all Vipers for the Alter cup sold by now? If not, there might be a good deal to make there. If they are sold, that is good news for the Global Challenge in Florida! Set the hook firmly in those guys when they come to pick up the boats after the AC and make them committ to the GC!

Rolf:

Yea US only. Falcon, Viper and Blade can all be gotten from dealers in Fla. Have some business deals in works and if they come through I want up to date uni/sloop, as I am boatless now and it SUCKS LOL LOL . Something I can sail easy myself and when grand daughter sails we can do sloop. I learned spin some a the Mystere 4.3 and I am ready to move up.

Doug

Can't really race a F-17 two up.

Doug

So Doug, you have decided on an F16, just do not know which one. How about to pop along to the GC and have a look?

All depends on what happens with current business dealings. I want to try to make in to Juana's race and see Bob Curry again. Get a taste on them there. FWYC is where I bought the 4.3. How may F-16 plan on going? Hope I can meet Timbo, Pete and the gang? Plan to eventually move to Tampa area. You guys hate polls?

Doug

One or two up,

When browsing through F16 start and result list why is it that I can’t find any (or very few) one up Vipers....?
Just a coincident or is the Viper less suitable as a one up?

Cheers

One or two up,

When browsing through F16 start and result list why is it that I can’t find any (or very few) one up Vipers....?
Just a coincident or is the Viper less suitable as a one up?

Cheers

First of all, if you can afford a new boat, make the choice between a Falcon or a Viper. I wouldn't consider the Blade as an option as the Falcon is an evolution to the Blade at the same price.
If you can't afford a new boat, I think the Blade is the only option in US (next to the Viper alter cup boats maybe)(and don't understand me wrong, the Blade is a great boat to sail).

I've been sailing the Blade on the North Sea for 3 years now and I must say it is a great boat one and two up. If I would have to choose a new boat now, I would definitely go for the Falcon as it is a really optimised F16 and I'm very happy with the support from Matt.
I know nothing about support for the Viper, but I do know it is not an optimised F16 as it is too heavy. Also the fact that is has a different rating then other F16 doesn't make to too keen on the Viper as I think it makes it really confusing and not good for the class as a whole.

Next to the weight/rating, to my opinion the hulls are also a little overdone. For the lighter weight crews or one-up sailors I can imagine it's not easy to get the bow down upwind. Resulting is a lower heading.

PS the voting does not work.

Regards,
Gill

I tried the poll, twice, it says "you chose too many options at once" or something like that, and gives you a "back" link, but then still doesn't work.

I don't know why we don't see as many 1 up Vipers as Blades down here in FL. The Blade has a couple years head start so there are more of them out there, and most of us who bought them were 1 up sailors (no regular, reliable crew) who always intended on racing them 1 up, maybe 2 up if we could find good crew and good wind.

I don't think there is any difference in racing the two of them 1 up, you can rig them exactly the same or any way you like.

Thanks guys. I think I will go with a Falcon when I am ready. As you said it has all the latest updates and optimization. And with Matt and Gina sailing them and behind us all the way I can't go wrong. Just have to workout some business details.

Doug

Which rating system are you refering to? I don't see any listing for a Viper in the Portsmouth tables and had assumed the Viper would carry the same rating as the other F16s

Alec

SCHRS. In handicap races the Viper sail with a 1.035 rating double handed. It fits the F16 box rules, but it is not an optimized F16 due to its weight.

Frankly, as I am doing the same (I sail a Stealth R, with a 1.03 rating single handled due to a smaller main and narrower beam) I don't see what the issue is

Doug et al:

We are fortunate to have 2 very good choices in the US. Viper is rated the same because it is an F-16. Both manufacturers give fantastic support (yes Goodall makes the world seem smaller by being very accessible). Each have their pros & cons. For most of us, the difference is our abilities and conditions. For example, Eric Witte (Northeast dealer) was excellent uni-sailing the Viper in 20 kt conditions @ Rockhall, MD last month and smoked the Blade sailors. Eric was out done by Constatine Seremetis on a F16 Taipan fitted with a Glaser main that happens to be optimized for uni-high wind conditions.

I am a fan of both because it can only attract more to the F16 class!

Pepin,
Allowing older designs to make the class more accessible is something I can only applaud.
However, when a new design comes on the market as an F16 (as it carries the logo in the sail), but at the same time shows a different rating on the schrs tables I find it very confusing and not good for the class. On Carnac for example I raced the Blade at 1.008 (Blade F16), the Viper as 1.035 (Viper F16)...

In my opinion, that person should have told them to rate himself as 1.008. If it were me, that's what I would have done.

Sounds like he is trying to sandbag to me. People just use every single advantage they can, for example, look at the F17 rating.


Mike