Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: This could be it... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #187858
08/13/09 10:18 AM
08/13/09 10:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
veteran
dave mosley  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
are they really that stupid and set in thier ways? Hello,the pinnacle of sailing(also known as the America's Cup) is being sailed on what? And the very same year they drop the multihull because its the least favored "yacht"?

Idiots


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: This could be it... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #187859
08/13/09 10:18 AM
08/13/09 10:18 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



where this does stink on so many levels.. i found the coverage in china as pathetic... so its not like we are losing much as far as coverage.. but it still sucks on so many other levels ...

Re: This could be it... [Re: ] #187860
08/13/09 10:35 AM
08/13/09 10:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 490
catandahalf Offline
addict
catandahalf  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 490
The letter from the IOC claims the extra number of athletes involved with an eleventh class would have exceeded their capacity - in so many words. Now that is lame and shame.

It has been suggested that we consider designing and holding a multiclass world championship for the same window and do 'em in with sponsorship and media coverage. The gentleman that shared this news with me a few minutes ago CAN make it happen.

Aloha - B

Re: This could be it... [Re: catandahalf] #187864
08/13/09 10:45 AM
08/13/09 10:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by catandahalf
The letter from the IOC claims the extra number of athletes involved with an eleventh class would have exceeded their capacity - in so many words. Now that is lame and shame.

It has been suggested that we consider designing and holding a multiclass world championship for the same window and do 'em in with sponsorship and media coverage. The gentleman that shared this news with me a few minutes ago CAN make it happen.

Aloha - B


Yet they just included golf and rugby for 2016.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,539269,00.html


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: This could be it... [Re: catandahalf] #187871
08/13/09 11:03 AM
08/13/09 11:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Houston, TX
B
broach1320 Offline
stranger
broach1320  Offline
stranger
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Houston, TX
Originally Posted by catandahalf
The letter from the IOC claims the extra number of athletes involved with an eleventh class would have exceeded their capacity - in so many words. Now that is lame and shame.

It has been suggested that we consider designing and holding a multiclass world championship for the same window and do 'em in with sponsorship and media coverage. The gentleman that shared this news with me a few minutes ago CAN make it happen.

Aloha - B


I think this is one hell of an idea! make sure the course goes close enough that spectators can see what they are missing by watching 5ktsb vs cats!

Re: This could be it... [Re: broach1320] #187873
08/13/09 11:11 AM
08/13/09 11:11 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
A paralell event would bring none of the pros, as the big dogs are all conscious about running afoul of ISAF and being banned from ISAF events. It is their income so it is understandable. It is a dead end.

With the lack of democracy within ISAF, where the council decides everything and are accountable to none, my hopes for 2016 is as good as non-existent. I think sailing will be slashed from the games in the near future even if all reports from the 2008 are favourable.

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 08/13/09 11:14 AM.
Re: This could be it... [Re: ] #187892
08/13/09 11:51 AM
08/13/09 11:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
So, What exactly are we loosing without an Olympic catamaran?

We can't argue that the Tornado Olympic Class has been a marketing triumph for catamaran racing. The marketing model which leverages Olympic sailing seems to be pretty lame.

I will argue that the sport is going to be better off with strong grass roots support in local fleets of F18's and A class's. (The Hobie 16 serves as a great entry level to world class level of competition. The pinnacle of the sport will be the F18 and A class world championships. Those events are where the sailors that we will aspire to emulate develop their reps.

Our sport will be better because we will be able to actually measure our performance against the pros in the big regattas and this will drive interest. The Tornado Olympic Circuit evolved so that the elite US sailors don't actually compete in the USA. For example, How many US catamaran sailors can say they raced against Johnny and Charlie in the last 12 years? (not counting Charlie's A class sailing).

I think the lesson to be learned is that we cannot let the gap between the rank and file catamaran racer and the elite Olympic sailor grow as large as it has.



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: This could be it... [Re: broach1320] #187903
08/13/09 12:23 PM
08/13/09 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Originally Posted by broach1320
Originally Posted by catandahalf
The letter from the IOC claims the extra number of athletes involved with an eleventh class would have exceeded their capacity - in so many words. Now that is lame and shame.

It has been suggested that we consider designing and holding a multiclass world championship for the same window and do 'em in with sponsorship and media coverage. The gentleman that shared this news with me a few minutes ago CAN make it happen.

Aloha - B


I think this is one hell of an idea! make sure the course goes close enough that spectators can see what they are missing by watching 5ktsb vs cats!


I'd be interested. When and where?



Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: This could be it... [Re: Mark Schneider] #187906
08/13/09 12:37 PM
08/13/09 12:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
addict
windswept  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
So, What exactly are we loosing without an Olympic catamaran?

We can't argue that the Tornado Olympic Class has been a marketing triumph for catamaran racing. The marketing model which leverages Olympic sailing seems to be pretty lame.

I will argue that the sport is going to be better off with strong grass roots support in local fleets of F18's and A class's. (The Hobie 16 serves as a great entry level to world class level of competition. The pinnacle of the sport will be the F18 and A class world championships. Those events are where the sailors that we will aspire to emulate develop their reps.

Our sport will be better because we will be able to actually measure our performance against the pros in the big regattas and this will drive interest. The Tornado Olympic Circuit evolved so that the elite US sailors don't actually compete in the USA. For example, How many US catamaran sailors can say they raced against Johnny and Charlie in the last 12 years? (not counting Charlie's A class sailing).

I think the lesson to be learned is that we cannot let the gap between the rank and file catamaran racer and the elite Olympic sailor grow as large as it has.


Until about 1996 the Tornado class in this country was actually pretty strong with national regattas drawing as many as 100 boats. At the 1992 OCR in Marblehead we had 87 Tornados, Nationals at Quincy drew 96, 92 trials were around 90 same with Savanah. It is after Savanah that the class basically went into a tailspin. Newr platforms and classes available?


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: This could be it... [Re: pgp] #187909
08/13/09 12:42 PM
08/13/09 12:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Why am I not surprised by this news?

Mike

Re: This could be it... [Re: windswept] #187912
08/13/09 12:51 PM
08/13/09 12:51 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Originally Posted by windswept
92 trials were around 90 same with Savanah. It is after Savanah that the class basically went into a tailspin. Newr platforms and classes available?


Money and professionalism. Up til the 90s you could do a campaign as a part time or intense hobby affair. Then professionalism struck and nothing but Marstrøm gear was good enough at the same time as the bar was raised sky-high. That was when the decline came about. At least this is my theory.

Re: This could be it... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #187921
08/13/09 01:29 PM
08/13/09 01:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
The local fleets collapsed when the elite semi pro sailors separated their equipment and their events from the rank and file sailor.

In the USA...they changed the policies for "making the team" you no longer had to sail the US regattas.. You headed to europe to train and race. At the end... the class had a three day NA's before the ISAF grade one event in Miami... (the OCR) and that was about it.

This is not surprising. Vanderbilt and the Yacht Clubs figured out a long time ago that professionalism would ruin the local racing scene. They founded the yacht clubs on Corinthian principals. YC's ban advertising on the sails. They frown on yachts named after your business. These rules are in place so that most view the playing field as fair and fun. Once the Tornado game escalated so that the budgets were 200 K plus ... why bother playing.




crac.sailregattas.com
Re: This could be it... [Re: dave mosley] #187997
08/13/09 10:24 PM
08/13/09 10:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by dave mosley
are they really that stupid and set in thier ways? Hello,the pinnacle of sailing(also known as the America's Cup) is being sailed on what? And the very same year they drop the multihull because its the least favored "yacht"?

Idiots


The Olympic regatta is a competition between athletes that should sail only ODs or SMODs, while this AC is a development class competition to check who is willing to spend more.

From a rational point of view, the AC is irrelevant to the choice of Olympic equipment.

From an emotional point of view (politics, PR, sales, sponsorship, etc.), the AC will make the sailing world angry about the Tornado exclusion, favoring its future reinstatement. This is already happening. Also, discussions about the exclusion of the T will make a great "filling" during the AC transmission, whenever they postpone a start or race. John could probably refresh Gary Jobson's memory just before the match...



Luiz
Re: This could be it... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #188005
08/14/09 04:07 AM
08/14/09 04:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Money and professionalism. Up til the 90s you could do a campaign as a part time or intense hobby affair. Then professionalism struck and nothing but Marstrøm gear was good enough at the same time as the bar was raised sky-high. That was when the decline came about. At least this is my theory.


And how would this change if another class was selected. Sadly Olypmic sailing has reached an unhealthy level of professionalism and bringing in the Tiger will not fix this. It may however bring this unhealthy influence into the F18 class which would not be in the members best interest. It would help fatten the pockets of Hobiecat though. Could also have a VERY negative effect on the Wildcat. If the Tiger was the Olympic class and I was to buy an F18, I would choose a Tiger without question unless it was significantly more expensive.

An F18 class selected as an Olympic class would effectively give that manufacture and unfair advantage in the F18 class. In Australia, if sailing was a business, this would be a breach of the Trade Practices Act and Hobiecat would be having a little chat with the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission)


Re: This could be it... [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #188008
08/14/09 04:30 AM
08/14/09 04:30 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
veteran
JeffS  Offline
veteran

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
There's a thread on Catsailor.net that says the vote went against cats, has anybody else heard whats happening?
regards


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: This could be it... [Re: JeffS] #188009
08/14/09 04:43 AM
08/14/09 04:43 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Steve,

the hope is that going SMOD will stop the amount of money being spent on gear and gear development. Probably no hope of stopping the bad effects of professionalism or bringing the game back to amateurs. That is not the way the olympic games are headed (unfortunately).

Jeff, the IOC decision is not against cats but against giving sailing back the 11th medal which was removed by a IOC decision in 2003 I think. The base of todays discussion was put together by ISAF back in 2007 when they managed to drop multihulls from the slate of events. That was when the vote against cats was made. This weeks meeting was within IOC where ISAF had petitioned to get the 11th medal back. All water under the brigde now..

Re: This could be it... [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #188010
08/14/09 05:05 AM
08/14/09 05:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
veteran

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
[quote=Tornado_ALIVE
If the Tiger was the Olympic class and I was to buy an F18, I would choose a Tiger without question unless it was significantly more expensive.

An F18 class selected as an Olympic class would effectively give that manufacture and unfair advantage in the F18 class. [/quote]

Why? Because you think you will make the Olympics?
the 'One design olympic Tiger' will soon not be able to keep up in the F18 fleet. The other current F18s will certainly undergo developement to keep them competitive in F18 for a few more years before they are superceded by a replacement design.
I know that sails/rudders are fairly easy to swap from one event to another, but the olympic sailors will want to race their one design boats and not get pushed around by faster F18s while they are doing that.
So, the only reason to buy a tiger will to be to race other tigers.


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: This could be it... [Re: TEAMVMG] #188012
08/14/09 05:42 AM
08/14/09 05:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the Tiger always been an OD class. Has the Tornado also only been an OD class.

OD classes still can under go developmental changes. This could VERY likely still happen to the Tiger. With the best of the best sailing on and involved with the development of a potential Olympic Tiger, the Tiger will become quicker and may become the pinical of F18 designs. Amazing the tranformation of the Tornado over the last 40 years with development to rig AND hulls despite the hull shape still being a 40 year old design. This also lead to the price of the T going through the roof. Your a fool if you think this can not happen to the Tiger also and not effect the F18 class also.


Re: This could be it... [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #188014
08/14/09 05:54 AM
08/14/09 05:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
It will give the Tiger an unfair advantage also in the class from a sales point off view. Why would you by an Infusion, Capricorn or a Wildcat when you can buy the Olympic class. Better resale due to a large market. Your boat is also sailed by, developed by and tuned by the best.

I am an AHPC and a Nacra fan, but even I would buy a Tiger over the others if it became the Olympic class.


Re: This could be it... [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #188016
08/14/09 06:09 AM
08/14/09 06:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Originally Posted by Tornado_ALIVE
It will give the Tiger an unfair advantage also in the class from a sales point off view. Why would you by an Infusion, Capricorn or a Wildcat when you can buy the Olympic class. Better resale due to a large market. Your boat is also sailed by, developed by and tuned by the best.

I am an AHPC and a Nacra fan, but even I would buy a Tiger over the others if it became the Olympic class.


TA, I think you are missing the point of the Hobie prop to the ISAF/IOC. They want to promote the one design Tiger. If they want to do that, they will have to FREEZE development at some point. They are proposing a laser with 2 hulls. Any developments are very small and take an age to get adopted. a "proper SMOD" as per laser. Not a "development Hobie tiger" in the same type as the Tornado, but 2 feet shorter and thinner.



F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 675 guests, and 98 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1