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Re: Waves without Rick [Re: Mugrace72] #196832
11/18/09 04:33 PM
11/18/09 04:33 PM

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xanderwess
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xanderwess
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I agree with that one Jack. BUT, Lake Havasu was one of the most awesome sailing places I have been to yet, we just got crap wind. Happens every NAC I have been to, and that really was a fun regatta.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: ] #196842
11/18/09 05:02 PM
11/18/09 05:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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"...we just got crap wind. Happens every NAC I have been to..."

So YOU'RE the jinx???

Matt, are you reading this?

smile

Mike

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: brucat] #196843
11/18/09 05:03 PM
11/18/09 05:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Someone move him to the Gulf Coast... at least from June to October...


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: ] #196846
11/18/09 05:16 PM
11/18/09 05:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
old hand
H17cat  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
Chris, there are "Talkers" and "Doers". Thanks for being a "Doer".
Enjoyed our chats at Havasu. Proud of our growing Northwest
Fleet of Tigers in Div. 4, now over 20. Six made the long trip to Lake Havasu, and took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. They are also part of the sailors that should, and will make the decision on the future of the Tiger Fleet.

On the Wave side, happy to take the top two Waves back to Seattle to add to our growing fleet at Sail Sand Point.

Caleb Tarleton

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: brucat] #196853
11/18/09 06:08 PM
11/18/09 06:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by brucat
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
I don't have a cat in this fight…

Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
It's all Hobiecentric spew ,look at the source. Discussing anything not in their agenda is like arguing politics online. It's a WASTE of your time. Save your typing fingers and have fun sailing your superfast pro boat. Of course they may be right, if you have an extremely low adrenalin level. It seems to me it's like apples and oranges.

Right from “I have no agenda,” to anti-HCA inflammatory hyperbole, very impressive.


Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
By the way I think the whole SMOD mindset is just a money grab.I deal with it in the N-20 class. Hopefully, this can all be worked out to the racer's advantage.


To all: From all the years I’ve been involved, this is where the real issue lies. Generally speaking, HCA leadership truly believes that SMOD is right for the class. Part of this belief lies in the concept that opening the sail rules, etc. ADDS costs and lowers fairness. I know, IWCA (and several others here) feel the direct opposite is true, and this is where the primary issue lies (in my opinion).

Here’s the SMOD argument: It seems very hard to argue that allowing third party sails lowers cost. Maybe for a replacement sail, but definitely not for a new (or like-new) boat. They come with a sail, adding a third party sail to “be more competitive” by definition adds costs, and one could say, turns it into an arms race, not a true test of who’s better on the water.

In any organization, the easiest thing to do is always nothing; keep the status quo. However, the HCA has been recently open to the idea of allowing IWCA rules to see if it will have a positive result on regatta attendance.

One common theme that comes up in discussion is this: Will this help us or hurt us? If we’re going to get ripped apart (verbally, online, etc.) no matter what we do, why should we change our organization to appease the whims of others?

This is what needs to be addressed. Coming out in online rants, refusing to play nicely and attend regattas, etc. does not give the impression that the HCA will be better with you in it.

I really hope no one takes offense to this, because I’m actually trying to help by telling you what the results of your words and actions can be causing.

Mike


Now Mike,
Who exactly is twisting stuff up. The first post was Wave only topic, and I don't own a wave hence the disclaimer. Then F-18 was dragged into your silliness. My agenda then became to point out the absurdity of that post. I could go back and get posts you've made over the past couple of years and pull your same crap if I wanted to waste the time. You shouldn't post on an open forum if you don't want unsolicited comments.
SMOD promotes mediocrity and overpriced gear. If your serious you replace your sails fairly often if your not ,your not a contender anyway and probably don't care.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: ] #196855
11/18/09 06:17 PM
11/18/09 06:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by xanderwess
I just went back are re read a couple posts and for Karl to get pissed about the 'broad stroke' statements I made about the cost of an F18 and the skill it takes to operate one. I am mystified. I don't care what you say, the cheapest used F18 still costs more than a brand new Wave and most Hobie 16s (not that this statement makes any difference, but just a source of comparison) and so therefore my 'broad statement' about big money (should have said 'relative' big money)pretty much holds true. And as far as inferring that all F18 sailors fall into the 'expert skill' sailing category: I apologize from the bottom of my heart for making that wild and outlandish statement. I am sure that anyone can jump on a Formula 18, and make it go without much experience. The Spin system just looks really simple to operate and doing the WildThing just comes naturally. Whatever.


So to advance cat sailing we need to dumb it down?

Quote
at the mercy of the Board (guys and girls from all over the region) to dictate what we (HCA) can and can't do..You guys beating Mike and Matt and me into the ground are just shooting the messengers.


Maybe that keeps happening because y'all incessantly defend the rules you didn't write,and sound as if you did .


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #196856
11/18/09 06:20 PM
11/18/09 06:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
See, I think the kiddie's need something cool, and shiny. Like a Playstation controller.







I'll get my coat......

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #196859
11/18/09 06:28 PM
11/18/09 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
So to advance cat sailing we need to dumb it down?


Yes.

Your average Joe doesn't have the $$ or the experience to deal with a spin boat out of the box. Why do you think they use Waves and Getaways at resorts (other than they're indestructible)?

You want more people to play? Keep it simple. Spinnaker boats are not simple.

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: mbounds] #196861
11/18/09 06:35 PM
11/18/09 06:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by mbounds
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
So to advance cat sailing we need to dumb it down?


Yes.

Your average Joe doesn't have the $$ or the experience to deal with a spin boat out of the box. Why do you think they use Waves and Getaways at resorts (other than they're indestructible)?

You want more people to play? Keep it simple. Spinnaker boats are not simple.

For rentals maybe for racing, I sure hope not. That's WEAK! I don't have a problem with a wave, I've been thinking of getting one, I just don't think it's the answer to all cat racing. Not even close. It's like saying the Prius is the answer to car racing.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #196865
11/18/09 06:54 PM
11/18/09 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by mbounds
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
So to advance cat sailing we need to dumb it down?


Yes.


Your average Joe doesn't have the $$ or the experience to deal with a spin boat out of the box. Why do you think they use Waves and Getaways at resorts (other than they're indestructible)?

You want more people to play? Keep it simple. Spinnaker boats are not simple.

For rentals maybe for racing, I sure hope not. That's WEAK! I don't have a problem with a wave, I've been thinking of getting one, I just don't think it's the answer to all cat racing. Not even close. It's like saying the Prius is the answer to car racing.


You really don't get it, do you, Todd?

People don't start racing in a Formula 1 car.

You can't see why anyone would want to race anything but the biggest, baddest machine out there. Guess what? A lot of people don't want to deal with the complexity and cost of a F18 / I20 or even an F16.

Why do you think that the Hobie 16 is still the largest catamaran class in North America?

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: mbounds] #196866
11/18/09 06:57 PM
11/18/09 06:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John like Wave. Wave good boat. John like sail Wave with many friend of John. Many pretty girl sail Wave. John like many pretty girl. Wave make pretty girl giggle. More Wave, say John.

How's that for dumbing it down?


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: John Williams] #196869
11/18/09 07:12 PM
11/18/09 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
[Linked Image]

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: John Williams] #196870
11/18/09 07:18 PM
11/18/09 07:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Originally Posted by John Williams
John like Wave. Wave good boat. John like sail Wave with many friend of John. Many pretty girl sail Wave. John like many pretty girl. Wave make pretty girl giggle. More Wave, say John.

How's that for dumbing it down?


But John have wife and she beat John till dumb If she reads that comment.

Last edited by hobie18rich; 11/18/09 07:20 PM.

Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: John Williams] #196871
11/18/09 07:18 PM
11/18/09 07:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by John Williams
John like Wave. Wave good boat. John like sail Wave with many friend of John. Many pretty girl sail Wave. John like many pretty girl. Wave make pretty girl giggle. More Wave, say John.

Does your wife know about this?


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: Mark Schneider] #196872
11/18/09 07:21 PM
11/18/09 07:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
MUST429 Offline
enthusiast
MUST429  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 216
Lakewood, Colorado
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

You know... I think I did join the HCA class.... at Nigel's Spring Fever Regatta years ago and then I was not allowed to join the following year.... something about not owning a Hobie....

I call bullsmoke ! Anyone can join the Hobie Class Association. Boat ownership is not required

Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

I also have a problem with joining a class where my vote is irrelevant. I have this thing about a democratic process.

Mark, for someone who is not a member, you spend an awful lot of time throwing stones at the HCA and offering opinions about how they ought to be running their organization.

Quite honestly, I cannot imagine that the F-18NAC organization is all that excited about the HCA running open events for the F-18 Class. In the fullness of time it could make them (the F-18NAC)at best less effective, and at worst, rather irrelevant.


Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #196875
11/18/09 07:26 PM
11/18/09 07:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
I don't have a problem with a wave, I've been thinking of getting one, I just don't think it's the answer to all cat racing. Not even close. It's like saying the Prius is the answer to car racing.


Actually, the Wave is a POS compared to what I would call "real" catamarans. I would rank it in the Yugo category if you compare Cats to cars.

In spite of that, even Yugos would be fun to race if everyone had one. Some of the most successful racing series (cars) are for spec cars...like Spec Miata.

However, a Yugo certainly would be no fun at all if it had shitty tires, worn out shocks, badly tuned engine and such.

If you let guys tune them up, adjust a few things and get decent rubber, then bring it on.

The Wave is the same way. Decent sail, rudders that aren't both warped in the same direction (lee helm on one tack/weather helm on the other) etc.

We are only asking to be able to fix some of the flaws that don't present themselves in a rental environment.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: Mugrace72] #196882
11/18/09 08:05 PM
11/18/09 08:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Mugrace72
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
I don't have a problem with a wave, I've been thinking of getting one, I just don't think it's the answer to all cat racing. Not even close. It's like saying the Prius is the answer to car racing.


Actually, the Wave is a POS compared to what I would call "real" catamarans. I would rank in the Yugo category if you compare Cats to cars.

However, even Yugos would be fun to race if everyone had one. Some of the most successful racing series (cars) are for spec cars...like Spec Miata.

However, even a Yugo would be no fun at all if it had shitty tires, worn out shocks, badly tuned engine and such.

If you let guys tune them up, adjust a few things and get decent rubber, then bring it on.

The Wave is the same way. Decent sail, rudders that aren't both warped in the same direction (lee helm on one tack/weather helm on the other) etc.

We are only asking to be able to fix some of the flaws that don't present themselves in a rental environment.

Jack I agree,If I got one that's how I'd race it,with the add-ons.
Matt ,maybe I don't get it, it wouldn't be the first time. I race to go fast ,I cruise to relax( and I'm not very good at that).


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Waves without Rick [Re: mbounds] #196885
11/18/09 08:46 PM
11/18/09 08:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline
addict
TheManShed  Offline
addict

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
Hmmm will I have a problem when I introduce a new high tech tri not made by Hobie?

This was the reason I stayed away from Hobies Cats (besides buying faster boats for the time) large fleets but too much "country clubbing" for "bare foot by the butt sailing". When the NACRA 5.2 came out in the 70’s a Hobie sailor holed me on the beach between races because I was winning. I know I can’t just judge all by the actions of a few = but in my Newbie days it left a profound first impression.

Think of your new Hobie Newbies be kind! Next topic - Why can’t we all get along.

Outsider looking in - jus’ sayin’


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: John Williams] #196888
11/18/09 09:09 PM
11/18/09 09:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 77
TigerLilly Offline OP
journeyman
TigerLilly  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 77
Originally Posted by John Williams
John like Wave. Wave good boat. John like sail Wave with many friend of John. Many pretty girl sail Wave. John like many pretty girl. Wave make pretty girl giggle. More Wave, say John.

How's that for dumbing it down?


Mimi like Wave, Wave good boat. Mimi happy to be friend of John. Everyone sail Wave, everyone giggle like girl smile

Re: Waves without Rick [Re: TigerLilly] #196889
11/18/09 09:13 PM
11/18/09 09:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Rich like Tiger.
Tiger good boat.
Spin make Rich's wife happy.
Rich's wife happy Rich happy.
Rich's wife not happy, NOBODY'S happy!


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
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