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Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #201830
02/02/10 01:09 PM
02/02/10 01:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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I hope these guys get all the bugs sorted out before the racing begins or this could be the biggest race that never happened!


Blade F16
#777
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #201834
02/02/10 01:23 PM
02/02/10 01:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by Undecided
Trey must be doing their splicing :P

That's funny.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #201836
02/02/10 01:30 PM
02/02/10 01:30 PM
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Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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I thought only Hobie 16s broke jib halyards? All of us who have been doing this for any amount of time carry a spare in the trailer.

Mike

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: brucat] #201844
02/02/10 01:46 PM
02/02/10 01:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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You probably oughta send Ernesto that tip.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #201846
02/02/10 01:51 PM
02/02/10 01:51 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
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TurboCat Offline
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espn360.com shows the 33rd AC on their online listings so apparently it will be on their site as well as americascup.com

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: brucat] #201849
02/02/10 02:02 PM
02/02/10 02:02 PM
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Too late...

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: TurboCat] #201871
02/02/10 02:57 PM
02/02/10 02:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TurboCat
espn360.com shows the 33rd AC on their online listings so apparently it will be on their site as well as americascup.com


I haven't tried it yet but I hear the ESPN 360 site player is pretty slow and unreliable. The America's Cup website is nice - I hope they're ready for the bandwidth demands!

Sailing Anarchy claims to have something in the works too - we'll see.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: brucat] #201873
02/02/10 03:04 PM
02/02/10 03:04 PM

A
andrewscott
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andrewscott
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A



Originally Posted by brucat
I thought only Hobie 16s broke jib halyards? All of us who have been doing this for any amount of time carry a spare in the trailer.

Mike

maybe they are going back to the beach/sailbox

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ] #201874
02/02/10 03:08 PM
02/02/10 03:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
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Alinghi needed to spend more time on the boat and in the water instead of court! GO BMWO! Perhaps they thought they could win a "waterless" America's Cup?


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: TheManShed] #201898
02/02/10 05:29 PM
02/02/10 05:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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Vancouver Winter Games and AC are the same time this year, not that makes any difference to me, but guess where the media will go...


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: dave mosley] #201910
02/02/10 07:15 PM
02/02/10 07:15 PM
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Isn't the Olympic coverage all bought up by NBC and its affiliates? Meaning, there are at least three other major networks, plus ESPN and Versus, who are free to pony up for the AC.

Oh yeah, ESPN is tied up with Winter X.

Mike

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: brucat] #201915
02/02/10 08:01 PM
02/02/10 08:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Anybody have any luck with the ESPN 360 player? I can't get it to work. I need a Tad.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: dave mosley] #201922
02/02/10 09:29 PM
02/02/10 09:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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OK - IJ ruled on the measurement issued presented by BMWO this evening. If you recall this has come up in the New York Courts after Alinghi released the first NOR. Besides the shocking new way that NOR attempted to include rudders in BMWO's Length on Load Waterline (LWL) measurement, it also permitted the boats to take on and dump ballast that was not included in the boat measurement while racing. The Court ruled that this was not legal because it would permit the boats to effectively increase their LWL after measurement. The Deed of Gift places only a few design restrictions on the boats and LWL is the primary one.

The latest NOR and Sailing Instructions are seemingly conflicting about ballast. In some places it references that ballast will be handled in according with the ruling of the courts, and in others it has the same wording that permits ballast to be added and dumped after measurement and while under way. BMWO filled for redress on this point. I haven't seen the exact details but it sounds like neither team can score a complete win on the issue. The teams and the IJ watched a presentation by the Chief (and only) Measurer and there was much debate. According to Pierre at Valencia Sailing :


Quote

Now, concerning the hearing, it was long and tedious, going into minute technical details at moments. I have to admit that out of all the presentations Russell Coutts made the most convincing one, especially when he used a diagram to demonstrate the extreme scenario of a team placing 3,000kg of lead at the stern of the yacht as ballast and then throwing it in the sea 30 seconds before the start. The 33rd America's Cup Chief Measurer seemed cornered.


The IJ seemed satisfied by the presentation of the Measurer and their ruling is effectively "it's up to the measurer". We haven't seen the Measurer's presentation but it appears that the end result appears to be that teams will be permitted to take on and discharge ballast while under way. However, they have to have the maximum amount of ballast onboard during measurement. That's simple enough - but it gets more complicated related to the distribution. There have been some comments that the ballast has to be in a "performance enhancing position" but it's not clear if this is actually the case.

Both boats are longer than the 90' LWL limit but at rest, they both have methods of only touching the water at a length of 90 but with large suspended overhangs. BMWO, uses the center hull of the trimaran to carry most of the boat's weight while at rest and the amas skim the water at the center. Obviously, when heeled and on one hull, the entire 100 or 110' length of the ama is in the water. At the time BMWO challenged for the cup, it was inconceivable for these boats to take on and discharge ballast water. BMWO has since added some ballast tanks to take some advantage of whatever Alinghi rule changes they couldn't stop.

BMWO's Trimaran at rest. you can see how the center hull supports the amas.
[Linked Image]


Alinghi has been trying to slip in this rule for some time now as their lightweight catamaran really needs the ballast to be competitive in breeze - but they want to dump that water to take advantage of it's light weight construction for light air.

So what's the big deal with the ballast rule? Alinghi has several ballast tanks inside it's hulls including some large ones in the sterns. Over time, we have seen their catamaran exhibit very different stern weights while at rest and while under way. With these large tanks in the rear of the boat, they can pump all their ballast water to the extreme rear which effectively causes it to "pop a wheelie". If this ballast was distributed evenly, the LWL of their boat would measure at 115'. When popping a wheelie, it would measure 90' or less. And this puts us back to the Deed of Gift in that the redistribution of the ballast would permit them to sail a boat that if it were measured in that condition, would exceed the 90' LWL limit.

Alinghi popping a wheelie:
[Linked Image]

It's not entirely clear if the measurer will require the boats to place their ballast in race trim. Based on the luke warm response by BMWO in their press release this evening, I suspect that it's possible for Alinghi to pop a wheelie for measurement. The positive takeaway for BMWO is that the boats have to measure with the maximum amount of ballast on board and that the boats can't measure empty and then add 3 tons of water immediately after measuring in. The positive for Alinghi is that they can dump ballast and better trim their lighter boat for different conditions.

In every single iteration of the America's Cup - including the only other time the event came down to a Deed Of Gift match similar to this one, the measurements and measurement decisions were carried out by a committee. Alinghi put only one man in charge of this responsibility and one things for sure - I wouldn't want to be the Chief Measurer. The result of the entire event could rest squarely on his shoulders

IJ Ruling Scorecard (I'm ruling this one a tie):

BMWO: 2.5
Alinghi: 0.5

PS - how in the world do you ensure that either team is not taking on more ballast water than they measured with during the race? They can load up and dump seawater at will - it's going to be a tough one to manage.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #201923
02/02/10 09:38 PM
02/02/10 09:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Anybody have any luck with the ESPN 360 player? I can't get it to work. I need a Tad.


I haven't tried but I heard it sucked. Stay tuned here and I'll post a list of the live feed links I find - I'm trying to really stay dialed into that. If I'm going to get up at 3:45am I'm going to make sure I have planned every way possible to see ~something~.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #201924
02/02/10 09:44 PM
02/02/10 09:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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cool. Your right on it.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #201931
02/02/10 10:22 PM
02/02/10 10:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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I guess we better start to distribute some links.

The official event website setup by the city of Valencia Spain. It will have links to live coverage though I suspect that they may not anticipate the internet bandwidth they are about to be hit with...but it may be a good spot to find text news and possibly up to the minute video:
http://33rd.americascup.com

www.americascup.com
As a subset of that Valencia website, they claim they will be feeding live video at www.americascup.com. PLEASE NOTE that you will probably have to register to see the feed. That could mean that once they start red lining their bandwidth, they'll shut down registration. I was able to register a couple of days ago but I don't see the link to register anywhere on there now. Check early, check often. This could be one of the best sources.

www.Espn360.com
I just discovered that Jobson and Randy Smyth will be covering the event for ESPN360 (thanks Karl!) so this will probably be worth checking out. I would imagine that ESPN360 would be better prepared for a lot network demand. PLEASE NOTE: you will also need to register and setup an account with ESPN360. It is FREE but takes some time...do it early. Their player is intensive on bandwidth and CPU so if you have an older PC and/or limited internet bandwidth, you may have some difficulty with it. The player requires a few plugins and you will probably have browser compatibility problems if you are not running a 'mainstream' browser. Be sure your security is set to something less than "nuclear power station" and use (gasp) Internet Explorer 8 for the best chance of running it. Watch your upper notification bar at the top of the IE8 window - it will need to install several software plug ins to work and the notifications will pop up there in a faint yellow bar asking permission. It works pretty well for me (I've got a new computer running Windows 7 64bit and a speedy internet connection).

www.SailingAnarchy.com
SailingAnarchy just got sponsored by Layline for the coverage and is working with one of the Italian teams from the last America's Cup to get their reporters out on the water. They also have some deal setup with an internet company that provides internet access for boaters (cruisers). Supposedly they are expecting to be able to upload a lot of stuff quickly. Sometimes hard to watch, sometimes juvenile, but sometimes ground breaking and without fear...the SA coverage will be interesting. I don't believe you will have to pre-register or anything for this one.

That's it so far...I'll keep you guys posted on any new additions to the list.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #201936
02/02/10 10:37 PM
02/02/10 10:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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interesting tid-bit. Did you know that USA-17 would have to time low tide just right in order to sail under the Golden Gate Bridge to keep the wing from hitting the bridge's deck?

Have you ever peered off the edge of the Golden Gate? That's incredible.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #201941
02/02/10 11:29 PM
02/02/10 11:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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I thought Layline was gone.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #201942
02/03/10 02:18 AM
02/03/10 02:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 170
Brisvegas
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Brisvegas
Thanks for the links Jake. I registered for downloads with the ESPN site but then they told me my ISP wasn't signed up with them. They only feed to a select list which seem to be US only. Makes sense I guess as their content is US sport which wouldn't be of much interest to the rest of the world. So I'm left to try the AC site and as you said there doesn't seem to be a way to register at the moment.................
Grrrrrrr.

Last edited by ACE11; 02/03/10 02:21 AM.
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ACE11] #201943
02/03/10 03:05 AM
02/03/10 03:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
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I had no problems registering a few days ago.
They ask you install the player, all went very smooth.
Any ideas why it is so hard to get things aired in the US?

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