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Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ] #202018
02/03/10 02:12 PM
02/03/10 02:12 PM
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brucat Offline
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Jake wrote: "1) technology. Alinghi had inserted some new rules that would keep BMWO from using a laser/flux capacitor wind detection device that can map the wind field in a particular area up to 1 KM ahead of the boat. The IJ ruled that BMWO is free to use the device. Alinghi had unfairly disadvantaged BMWO with the rule change."

OK, I'm not sure that I get the point here. How exactly would outlawing this device disadvantage BMWO? Unless Alinghi has one, the use of this device would give BMWO an unfair advantage over Alinghi. Disallowing it, or giving one to each tean, would be the only thing that would make it a level playing field (on this issue).

Was BMWO's case that it was unfair that they had spent the money on this device, and then Alinghi changed the rule so they couldn't use it? That seems like a stretch to me.

Mike


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: brucat] #202019
02/03/10 02:15 PM
02/03/10 02:15 PM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Quote
Was BMWO's case that it was unfair that they had spent the money on this device, and then Alinghi changed the rule so they couldn't use it? That seems like a stretch to me.


It was unfair because, the original NOR Alinghi put out allowed it. BMWO invested in the technology, assuming that Asslinghi would be doing the same, and then they find out that its outlawed in the new rules.

Thats whats unfair about it. Same goes for the skin friction system.

You can't announce a game by a certain set of rules, then find out which rules are going to be exploited by your competitor and change them all.

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #202021
02/03/10 02:17 PM
02/03/10 02:17 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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What do you guys think about the device itself?
Lets say someone shows up with it for the Tybee or Texel, ban or allow?

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #202024
02/03/10 02:19 PM
02/03/10 02:19 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Anybody wanna place bets on how long it takes JC to pop Clean upside the head? Actually he's got alot of restraint, look how long he dealt with Chuck. shocked


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

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If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
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Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Tony_F18] #202029
02/03/10 02:35 PM
02/03/10 02:35 PM
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tampa, fl
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
What do you guys think about the device itself?
Lets say someone shows up with it for the Tybee or Texel, ban or allow?


Per RRS, I would say No:

53 SKIN FRICTION
A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or
have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of
the flow of water inside the boundary layer.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ksurfer2] #202034
02/03/10 02:53 PM
02/03/10 02:53 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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I meant laser wind tool thingy.

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Tony_F18] #202038
02/03/10 03:11 PM
02/03/10 03:11 PM
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I'm not in favor of it for races governed by class rules.

But the AC is about the technology. SO DO IT.

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #202040
02/03/10 03:19 PM
02/03/10 03:19 PM
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california
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Alinghi had to make a section or rules go away so they could use an engine and ballast. Those rules opened up pandoras box on what BMWO could do.
The You can't limit design because it violates the Deed argument may bite them on the hind end. This provision allows for the use of just about anything short of a prop and jet .


Richard Vilvens
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Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: F-18 5150] #202059
02/03/10 04:44 PM
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The Alinghi team owner Ernesto said in an interview that he will sail the boat himself.
If you had a $100m boat wouldn't you want to drive it yourself too?

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Tony_F18] #202062
02/03/10 05:06 PM
02/03/10 05:06 PM
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Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
The Alinghi team owner Ernesto said in an interview that he will sail the boat himself.
If you had a $100m boat wouldn't you want to drive it yourself too?


Until they get behind anyway.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

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Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: David Ingram] #202067
02/03/10 06:39 PM
02/03/10 06:39 PM
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
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Keep your fingers crossed.


Have Fun
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: brucat] #202068
02/03/10 07:05 PM
02/03/10 07:05 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by brucat
Jake wrote: "1) technology. Alinghi had inserted some new rules that would keep BMWO from using a laser/flux capacitor wind detection device that can map the wind field in a particular area up to 1 KM ahead of the boat. The IJ ruled that BMWO is free to use the device. Alinghi had unfairly disadvantaged BMWO with the rule change."

OK, I'm not sure that I get the point here. How exactly would outlawing this device disadvantage BMWO? Unless Alinghi has one, the use of this device would give BMWO an unfair advantage over Alinghi. Disallowing it, or giving one to each tean, would be the only thing that would make it a level playing field (on this issue).

Was BMWO's case that it was unfair that they had spent the money on this device, and then Alinghi changed the rule so they couldn't use it? That seems like a stretch to me.

Mike



I read a summary transcript from the IJ hearing and the BMWO argument was that it was allowed in the previous NOR. They dedicated money and valuable personnel resources to develop the technology and to make it usable on their boat. These resources could have been applied to other projects to enhance reliability or functionality of the boat's control systems. They were disadvantaged because they spent effort, that could have been spent elsewhere, had Alinghi not changed the rule.

It's not a huge deal in this case, but they could well have structured Spithill's headsup display around the device. Even if it's not that dramatic of an issue, I can see the argument - particularly if you scale it up slightly to a larger system (say, like if Alinghi had suddenly put in a rule to disallow rigid wings). Same deal - different scale....it's a valid complaint.

Rich nailed it to. The other part of this argument is that it was ruled to be as much a design/technology contest by the courts based on the arguments set forth by Alinghi when they tossed rules 51 through 54. Alinghi has since tried repeatedly to limit technology (in several areas) when BMWO had it and they didn't.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #202072
02/03/10 07:21 PM
02/03/10 07:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Need a new desktop background? High Res BMWO photos daily:

http://bmor-photo.com/index.php?lang=en&fn=folio&FolioID=376&co=1&openco=1


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #202078
02/03/10 07:56 PM
02/03/10 07:56 PM

D
DougSnell
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DougSnell
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I am running Firefox and Vista and I can't get it to update the Move Player...Just set there and runs but will not update.

Doug

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ] #202079
02/03/10 08:32 PM
02/03/10 08:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Firefox did the same thing to me ... Try Internet Explorer 8. Make sure your security is set to Medium-High or lower.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #202085
02/03/10 09:50 PM
02/03/10 09:50 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Jake:

Thanks that worked. NOW I just have to get up 1t ^*&*&^*&^*^ 3 am to watch it. ROFLMAO!!!!!

Doug

Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: ] #202092
02/03/10 11:51 PM
02/03/10 11:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
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South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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This just in. According to Corey Friedman at Sailing Scuttlebutt the "jury" is still out on the measurement rule as far as the placement of ballast for measurement (allowed to place it all in the stern or must be equally distributed fore and aft). However, he makes a strange mention that BMWO is not permitted to be present during the Alinghi measurement....that's weird. More news to follow tomorrow.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #202093
02/04/10 01:11 AM
02/04/10 01:11 AM
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Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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I want a laser flux capacitor thingy.


Aido
Viper 288
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Aido] #202100
02/04/10 08:42 AM
02/04/10 08:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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For only $150,000 you can have a handheld unit with basic features. You'll have to get your software engineer to integrate it into your boat's data system though. grin


http://catchthewindinc.com/racers-edge


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup - 10 days to go! [Re: Jake] #202127
02/04/10 11:46 AM
02/04/10 11:46 AM
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brucat Offline
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Sorry, I wasn't thinking like a billionaire in "spend all I can to gain any advantage" mode. That was inappropriate of me for this regatta.

I do agree that late rule changes are risky.

Being the PRO for this must be all sorts of fun. You're an employee of the defender, but are expected by the rest of the world to run a fair race. I've actually spoken to Luigi about this in the past. They certainly earn their money...

Mike

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