| Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#202263 02/05/10 09:51 AM 02/05/10 09:51 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | You're gonna need all the weight you can find, stick boy. Want me to mail you a few pounds?
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: pgp]
#202267 02/05/10 10:01 AM 02/05/10 10:01 AM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 439 Memphis, TN mikeborden
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Posts: 439 Memphis, TN | Now that's funny! Something else you can do is use synthetic line for your trapeze lines. There's some stuff you can do to loose a couple of pounds off of the boat. Synthetic trap wires. Lighter hotstick. The Stick that comes with the boat is pretty lightweight, but if you want extendable, those can sometimes be kind of heavy. I got a Marstrom hoststick and it feels as light as the long one that comes stock with the boat. It's EXPENSIVE however. Some 14mm micro blocks for the downhaul. Use Harken, they are supposed to be better of the two in that size. I think that's the size anyway. Where you can think of something better and lighter, do it. It's all class legal in the F16 class. Mike
Viper USA 132
1984 Hobie 18
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: pgp]
#202268 02/05/10 10:08 AM 02/05/10 10:08 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger OP
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | You're gonna need all the weight you can find, stick boy. Want me to mail you a few pounds? You didn't know thats actually me in my avatar? I'm just looking for ideas on the two up parts. The stuff that I'd be carrying around for no reason. I'm on the traplines. I fricken hate wire. 3 days sailing and a couple are already mangled and don't coil nicely. Plus I leave them on the mast when I trailer, a couple of ball ties and a bungee and I don't have to worry about them beating the crap outta the mast. Mike are you doing the clinic in April? | | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#202287 02/05/10 11:19 AM 02/05/10 11:19 AM |
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 404 Chattanooga, TN Joanna
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Posts: 404 Chattanooga, TN | Karl-if you are doing the clinic, why not make the vacation a little longer and swing by Spring Fever on your way south??
That goes for the MD guys too... Hope to see a fleet of 16's in Hartwell.
We are going straight south after wards for the clinic also.
Joanna
Blade F16 "Too Sharp to Touch" | | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#202296 02/05/10 11:34 AM 02/05/10 11:34 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Go synthitic on traps; shrouds and forestay; taper Mainsheet, spi sheets, spi halyard, downhaul.
get rid of jib sheets and halyards etc
will not save loads; but can shed a few KG.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#202302 02/05/10 11:49 AM 02/05/10 11:49 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | The Maryland guys have it down to a science. Some of them have even deleted the back-to-back block on the spin halyard.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#202319 02/05/10 01:37 PM 02/05/10 01:37 PM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 439 Memphis, TN mikeborden
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Posts: 439 Memphis, TN | yeah, I'm doing the clinic. I haven't quite decided on if I'm going to do Spring Fever and then head to FL after wards. I got to talk to my stack mate to see what his plans are. Mike
Viper USA 132
1984 Hobie 18
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: mikeborden]
#202362 02/05/10 07:22 PM 02/05/10 07:22 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Hopefully you all realize that in the US ... your portsmouth rating is pegged to the two up F16.
To be fair to your competitors in Portsmouth Racing, you should adjust your rating for the lighter boat by about 2 %
The ISAF standard shows the following. SCHRS rates the F16 1.008 the cat rigged F16 is faster at .982 For reference, the F18 is 1.005 ie just sec's per hour faster then the two up F16.
The two up F16 DPN was set by consensus (not data) at 63.0 while the F18 rating is faster at 62.4
Last edited by Mark Schneider; 02/05/10 09:02 PM.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#202390 02/06/10 07:48 AM 02/06/10 07:48 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | We can discuss it as soon as you become a F16 Class member.
I think the F18s are calling you, why don't you go see what they want.
Last edited by pgp; 02/06/10 07:53 AM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#202398 02/06/10 10:43 AM 02/06/10 10:43 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Mark,
I think the F16 class already made a great nod to the larger racing scene by having leveled THE MUCH MORE MUCH SLOWLY USPN F16 1-up rating to the FASTER USPN 2-up rating.
Now you are asking for even more ?
Besides SCHRS (ISAF) is WAAAAAAY off in rating singlehanders; they always have been. Not a good point of reference therefor
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Wouter]
#202400 02/06/10 11:35 AM 02/06/10 11:35 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Wouter... a great nod to the larger racing scene is not an adequate basis for rating the boat. ANY class gets consulted and asked for data but they are not determining the rating or do they necessarily agree with the published rating in a PN system. The history of the F16 rating process ... was unfortunate.
Portsmouth was unable to fairly rate the two boats (2up or one up) (There were lots of reasons then and the situation is more difficult in 2010). The need for a PHRF like adjustment nod was a solution to the systemic problem of the PN system.
The alternative measurement rating system that would most likely be adopted in the USA would be ISAF's SCHRS which indicates a real difference in performance. How accurate the SCHRS rating system is for single handers is an entirely different issue for the general discussion forum. The international multihull council would be the appropriate organization to drive a consensus between the measurement rating systems ... or simply to pick one that they determine is fair.
I am suggesting that the class be proactive and address the mismatch for the US Portmsouth system for the upcoming 2010 season. (Mind you this is a thread about how much junk you can dump to lighten the boat but the impact on your PN rating was overlooked.)
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#202401 02/06/10 12:05 PM 02/06/10 12:05 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | Mark. Why are you picking on us? If you must talk about inappropriate numbers, why not go to the main board?
We've at least tried to come up with an accurate number. There are boats who refuse to do that.
Go to the main board with this. Please!
Last edited by pgp; 02/06/10 12:08 PM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: pgp]
#202433 02/06/10 08:04 PM 02/06/10 08:04 PM |
Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: 396 Annapolis Md. LuckyDuck
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Posts: 396 Annapolis Md. | Pete. Mark is going around to different classes to see if anyone will talk to him. Nobody else does, we shouldn't either. Ed
Still hazey after all these beers. F-16 Falcon #212
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: LuckyDuck]
#202438 02/06/10 08:41 PM 02/06/10 08:41 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
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Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | Mark, I think your time would be better spent trying to persuade Mr Master Uni Rig Sailor to play fair and get his 'F'17 measured and a fair PHRF assigned to it and the other so called 'F'17s................. A bonus might be that people might think a little better of you
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#202453 02/07/10 04:19 AM 02/07/10 04:19 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Sorry Mark,
I really don't see any reason to do more then we have already done. The F16 class succeeded in making both its USPN ratings faster (despite the US racing data !) and we coped with significant heat for doing just that.
63 as a rating for both setups is quite right for the F16 boats in my opinion. With Scooby I agree that some other classes are much better candidates for a rating modification then us at this time.
I often enjoyed discussing this things with you, but I really don't agree with you on this one.
Again I'm sorry,
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: Jalani]
#202454 02/07/10 05:29 AM 02/07/10 05:29 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Mark, I think your time would be better spent trying to persuade Mr Master Uni Rig Sailor to play fair and get his 'F'17 measured and a fair PHRF assigned to it and the other so called 'F'17s................. A bonus might be that people might think a little better of you Agreed; I've been waiting nearly 2 years for the F17 data.... Very poor form on the aprt of Nacra / F17 owners NOT to get the data sorted out; we (SCHRS management group) keep the slot open on the website; all is ready on our part to update the site with the correct rating; we are just (still) waiting for measurement certs..... Nowt we can do until someone sorts out getting the boat measured. I've no idea why this has not been done; maybe Nacra are shelving the F17 and so do not see the need to get it measured? Maybe they cannot build it consistantly to any of the 11 different all up weight's I've been told, maybe that just do not see the rest of the world as a market for it - which I find odd as having owned a Inter 17 it's a good boat. Mucho oddness.....
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Deleting excess weight?
[Re: scooby_simon]
#202486 02/07/10 03:21 PM 02/07/10 03:21 PM |
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 242 Brisveagas Aido
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Posts: 242 Brisveagas | I wish the F16 and F17 boys and girls could get along. The boats are nearly identical in performance. So geting pissd of about handicap ratings doesnt make a lot of sense to me. You just need to race each other off scatch and beat each other over the line.
For the record ive seen the numbers for the F17 sloop and its 104 texel rating but im sure i ve mentioned this before. You would have to delete a **** load of wieght from the F17 to get it to weigh near any of the production F16s.
F17 is a great boat none the less. They should definitely be starting with and included in the results with the F16s IMO. Maybe we can learn something from the Master Uni rig sailor as well. It would be fun to have a crack at him any way.
Aido Viper 288
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