Well thanks to Bundy and his one regatta on an f16 (that he didn't even win) the f16 yardstick has been adjusted to the same as an f18.

I think the f18 sailors really have their noses out of joint. Pretty funny.

Most handicap systems have the F16 and the F18 very close to bang equal. The US is probably the last holdout now that Oz has clued in. And that has more to do with administration than performance differences.

John. Do you know if there any chance that the F-16 number might be updated this year? Ed

Since Darline's death, I am not sure there is a chairperson for that committee. Currently, there are a number of "members at large" listed, but no chair.

damn I liked having that extra few seconds.. ahh well..

F16 US DPN = 63.0
F18 US DPN = 62.4

Not a bunch of difference, imo. Now check this one out:

F17 US DPN = 66.7

Go figure ... those are some quick boats.

Schneider made a comment a few weeks ago that the mid-year change to US F16 DPN change was not related to new data import (I KNOW some new regatta data was added) - but rather by discussion and arbitration. Is that true?

Please be aware, Kurnell has manually adjusted the VYC themself and are not the same as the true current VYC. Basically the race committee were concerned the smaller 14 footers (mostly retired sailors) were not winning their fair share of races against the higher performance boats (sailed by sailors who train hard and regularly attend Nationals and Worlds) and decided to make their own changes.

So, the F16 Yardstick is still 2.5 minutes for every 100 behind the F18, but only .5 Minute according to Kurnell. And I think you will find the F18 sailors care a lot less (do not care at all) then the F16 sailors about this.

KCC's adjusted VYC / True VYC

Maricat 4.3 Cat – 94 / 94
Nacra 14sq – 84.5 / 84.5
Narcra 5.0 - 83 / 81
Taipan 4.9 Cat - 75.5 / 76.5
Taipan 4.9 Sloop - 72.5 / 73.5
Narcra 5.8 - 72 / 72.5
F16 - 68 / 71.5
A Class - 69.5 / 70.5
F18 - 67.5 / 69
Tornado - 64.5 / 65

I think the committee would benefit greatly from balance and leadership.

Stephen,

Do you have a link to the numbers you quote ?

Because when I google VYC yardsticks I end up at this link :

http://www.vic.yachting.org.au/site/yachting/vic/downloads/Yardsticks05_06%20new3.pdf

Which specifies :

F18 70.00
F16 71.00
A-class 71.00

And that is what I remember from the race results that Gary'd put in.

A difference of only 1.4% in time relative to the F18's or 51 seconds slower per hour of bouy racing. A number very much in line with Texel rating 102/101 = 0.99% = 36 seconds slower per hour bouy racing.

SCHRS (ISAF) for 2-up mode gives 1.008/1.005 = 0.30% or 11 seconds slower per hour bouy racing. The SCHRS 1-up rating is waaaaay off though.

The USPN rating hads been moved to the same ratio ; 63.0/62.4 = 0.96% = 35 seconds slower per hour bouy racing.

I think this situation has existed for 1.5 years now and seems fair in my opinion.




I think you make a small error here. The Kurnell ratings you provide suggest that the F16's are slower then the F18's over 100 minutes of racing by 0.74% or 44 seconds = 0,75 minute. For an hour of bouy racing the difference is only 27 seconds; very much in line with the other rating systems.

They may actually be doing the right thing at Kurnell.

Thanks,

Wouter

This is a very good time to change the system. I do not think Darline can be replaced.

Wouter the latest VYC yardstick are at http://www.vic.yachting.org.au/site/yachting/vic/downloads/2010/Yardsticks09_10.doc

and surprisingly they've actually gone the other way

F16 71.50
F18 69.00

the previous yardsticks were at

http://www.vic.yachting.org.au/site/yachting/vic/downloads/2008/Yardsticks08_09-Rev1.pdf

Tom. That is true. Just ask the greatest uni sailor in the world. I'm glad it was changed though. Ed

I am not knocking the F17 - they are really good boats (fast, refined, well built). I just wish their rating was closer to reality

It's all good if that is all I have to complain abt!!!!

Wouter, It sounds like Kurnell did what the USPN board chose to do which is to, by decree, set the F16-two up rating slightly slower then the F18. It's not clear if they also recognize that as the breeze builds the ability to push the F16-2-up is a limitation and adjust the high wind numbers according. A single number rating system is always a limitation.

Obviously the ability of portsmouth systems to arrive at fair/accurate ratings in the USA and Australia in this day and age is limited. Facts on the ground and your arguments have changed my point of view (not to mention Kurnell's). I think we agree that a measurement rule, by and large is superior to a PN system in this day and age.

Your point of view is that SCHRS single handed formula is waay off. My point of view is that both Texel and SCHRS need a wind speed adjusted rating since peformance is not linear, especially for single handed spin boats.

The first step though is determining what the difference is between Texel and SHCRS for single handers and whether one rule is more accurate then the other.

Setting aside the red herring of a measurement certificate for F17's (which will materialize once an F17 decides to race in the EU...) What is your problem with the SCHRS single handed F16 rating formula and how does it differ from Texel's?

59.3 59.3 59.3 59.3!!!!:)